I think that supercompensation is not as strong an effect in amateurs and that this is the #1 driver of injury.
I've long suspected there is a range of exertion that is net negative with regard to injury risk. No exercise at all means no exercise related risk. However, I strongly disagree that an extreme amount of exercise is the riskiest. I think the most dangerous level of exertion sits right in the middle somewhere. That special zone where you are grinding down your bones a bit but your hormones and other compensation mechanisms don't react accordingly because you aren't going quite hard enough.
Professional runners will do high impact lifting and daily stretching. Amateurs will do whatever they feel like doing for prep work, including nothing at all. It's disturbing that they leave this critical detail out.
I’d always hated running. I’ve done C25K a few times with no problem, but once I reached that goal I felt I couldn’t make much additional progress. But the need to move and running’s simplicity and minimal requirements meant I kept trying every couple of years. I read/watched a little and got some tips from ultra runners and actually started to make progress. I was actually enjoying it and looking forward to running. Then I got the worst fucking shin splints imaginable where I had to nearly crawl halfway back home. Stopped running to heal, which took a very long time. I’ve tested a few runs but there’s still pain and I just don’t want to go through that again.
So now I row every day. I get a much better exercise high from rowing, progress is much more noticeable, it’s improved vitals more than running has, there’s no pain, and I don’t have to worry about weather. I occasionally miss the change of scenery or things like running on a cold snowy day but I can just go rent some cross country skis when I get that itch.
“A high-level athlete doesn’t need to see a sports doctor.
[…]
Professional athletes benefit from much better […] medical support than novice or amateur runners”
So, which is it? You might say their “specific programme that includes dietary measures, recovery phases and processes” is medical support but doesn’t involve doctors, but if you do, I think that’s playing with words.
Staying safer and getting the benefits comes down to progressive training (carefully managing volume and intensity), adapting lifestyle/recovery, and getting guidance/support (coaches, clubs, medical help) rather than assuming pros are built differently and amateurs are safe.
I've been lucky to run fourteen years so far without any injuries at all, starting when I was twenty-seven. I don't train "for" anything, though, other than maintaining my own fitness. I just do my 10K three times a week and that's good enough for me.
I've been running 3x a week for over 40 years now.
* about 4 miles
* I don't run for time, just a trot
* not training for anything
* drink a full glass of water beforehand. If sweaty outside, two glasses
* had some pain in my hips and knees. Switched to a ball-strike rather than a heel-strike. Pain went away. (you can feel the difference in the impact on the knees and hips)
* don't run downhill
* the big toe joint hurts and has gotten large making it hard to find shoes that fit
I did similar for about 25 years. I had one injury from overtraining (I basically ran 20 miles every Sunday morning for 6 months, in addition to two shorter runs each week) that ended up plantar fasciitis and I had to take 4-5 month off.
I stopped doing that sort of weekly long run after that and did a lot more in the 6-10 miles range.
Then during and immediately post-COVID shutdowns, I just started running every time I felt stressed about something, and I started to neglect all the other holistic movements that complement running.
This ended up leading to a weird twinge in my hip that 2 years of focused strength training hasn't eliminated. Doctor says there is nothing structural but I don't run any more and I miss it often. There is a flow state I seem to get in somewhere just under to just over an hour in to a run.
The only other time I ever get in to that wonderful flow state is every once in a while when playing guitar, but it's rare.
I do 10K twice a week, but walking speed with a 15kg backpack for load training. It is safer on my joints and pushes my body harder but obviously takes much longer than running.
Not OP, but I’ve been running competitively for 50 years (yes, I can collect Social Security). I ran 10x20” sprints yesterday, I’ll do tempo later this week. I still race, from cross country to ultramarathons. I ran cross country nationals this past year and didn’t embarrass myself, I’ll run a 12 hour race in April.
My secret? Genetics. I used to tell people that would ask about what I know about their injuries: “I don’t really know, I don’t get injured.” That isn’t true anymore, I’ve been nursing plantar fasciitis for about six months now. But I will say this about injuries: if it doesn’t get better in a couple of days, take a little time off, and see a doctor if it persists more than a couple of weeks. And my other “secret” is to be reasonable about your mileage. OP has the right idea with a few runs a week at a reasonable distance. I don’t do that, that’s probably why my foot hurts right now. You can miss a day, none of us are going to the Olympics.
Otherwise, after 40, don’t just run. Do yoga, lift weights, ride a bicycle once in a while. Sacrifice a run if you have to so you can lift twice a week, you’re not getting any stronger. Take ten minutes with a YouTube video to do some yoga, you’re definitely not getting any more flexible. You should do these things when you’re young, but they are almost a requirement after age 50.
The best way for me to avoid injury is to just not run if I dont feel good. If I dont sleep well, or feel like I am getting a little sick, I just take the day off. If my ankle or knee doesnt feel quite right, I skip my run.
To maintain my fitness, I do a mix of gym strength training, bike riding, and running, which also helps reduce some stress from any one type of training.
I've been running about the same amount of years, starting at age 38, including sometimes as many as 14 runs of 26.2 or longer in a year.
Keeping 80% or more of the volume at an easy effort is part of that. I think diet helps, because depending on what you eat, you are could be contributing to more or less inflammation in the body, which both could make injury more likely and recovery slower. I eat whole-food, plant-based.
I expect a good stretching routine would also aid injury prevention, but I've been pretty lousy about that most of the time.
> Note the paradox here: one of the principles of training is to stimulate the body, to “wear it out” at a given moment in time in order to trigger the physiological processes that will lead to improved capabilities, the fight against fatigue… and, ultimately, increased resistance to physical stress.
A somewhat recent paper:
Systematic review and meta-analysis of antioxidants with or without exercise training improving muscle condition in older adults
Seems to imply that as we get older, antioxidants might help the body recover from exercise. More specifically, antioxidants may help resolve exercise induced inflammation in adults aged over 55 years.
So it seems that, yes, as you get older, its easier for the body to wear down, but this can be mitigated somewhat.
reading some popular media from around 1900 in the USA, it seemed to be a common perception that people who trained for track and field events generally expect a short life somehow.
If you read about their wellness and performance enhancing drugs, there's good reason they died young.
For example, the 1904 Olympic marathon, the organizer believed drinking water was a bad idea while exercising and the winner took a mix of brandy, strychnine and egg whites during the race.
I mean the consensus is that to improve you kinda have to put a certain level of unusually high stress on your body. While amateurs do it at a lower level, amateurs likely like the genetics that makes increases resistance to slows down the wearing process and also lack regular constant monitoring of exercise intensity, frequency, rests, diet etc.
It depends on the intensity level. In the pandemic of 2020, I ran 26.2 mile runs at an easy effort for 5 weekends in row in the spring and 6 in the fall, generally with my easy effort getting faster as I went. Rather than the sequence of big runs wearing my out, I was getting stronger.
Now, if I had tried to run every one at "race pace", I would likely be trashed or injured by the end from insufficient recovery.
I think that supercompensation is not as strong an effect in amateurs and that this is the #1 driver of injury.
I've long suspected there is a range of exertion that is net negative with regard to injury risk. No exercise at all means no exercise related risk. However, I strongly disagree that an extreme amount of exercise is the riskiest. I think the most dangerous level of exertion sits right in the middle somewhere. That special zone where you are grinding down your bones a bit but your hormones and other compensation mechanisms don't react accordingly because you aren't going quite hard enough.
Professional runners will do high impact lifting and daily stretching. Amateurs will do whatever they feel like doing for prep work, including nothing at all. It's disturbing that they leave this critical detail out.
> They follow a specific programme that includes dietary measures, recovery phases and processes.
Eh, it's kinda there
I’d always hated running. I’ve done C25K a few times with no problem, but once I reached that goal I felt I couldn’t make much additional progress. But the need to move and running’s simplicity and minimal requirements meant I kept trying every couple of years. I read/watched a little and got some tips from ultra runners and actually started to make progress. I was actually enjoying it and looking forward to running. Then I got the worst fucking shin splints imaginable where I had to nearly crawl halfway back home. Stopped running to heal, which took a very long time. I’ve tested a few runs but there’s still pain and I just don’t want to go through that again.
So now I row every day. I get a much better exercise high from rowing, progress is much more noticeable, it’s improved vitals more than running has, there’s no pain, and I don’t have to worry about weather. I occasionally miss the change of scenery or things like running on a cold snowy day but I can just go rent some cross country skis when I get that itch.
FTA:
“A high-level athlete doesn’t need to see a sports doctor.
[…]
Professional athletes benefit from much better […] medical support than novice or amateur runners”
So, which is it? You might say their “specific programme that includes dietary measures, recovery phases and processes” is medical support but doesn’t involve doctors, but if you do, I think that’s playing with words.
The key is simply to keep moving.
Staying safer and getting the benefits comes down to progressive training (carefully managing volume and intensity), adapting lifestyle/recovery, and getting guidance/support (coaches, clubs, medical help) rather than assuming pros are built differently and amateurs are safe.
My doctors recommendation has always been “Eat a little better and move around a little bit, that’s your goal”
Funny two weekends ago I watched a woman set a world record for the mile for women 80-85.
I've been lucky to run fourteen years so far without any injuries at all, starting when I was twenty-seven. I don't train "for" anything, though, other than maintaining my own fitness. I just do my 10K three times a week and that's good enough for me.
I've been running 3x a week for over 40 years now.
* about 4 miles
* I don't run for time, just a trot
* not training for anything
* drink a full glass of water beforehand. If sweaty outside, two glasses
* had some pain in my hips and knees. Switched to a ball-strike rather than a heel-strike. Pain went away. (you can feel the difference in the impact on the knees and hips)
* don't run downhill
* the big toe joint hurts and has gotten large making it hard to find shoes that fit
* don't run when not feeling well, or there's ice
* I feel weird when I can't run for some reason
* It feels good to run, and I like the results
I did similar for about 25 years. I had one injury from overtraining (I basically ran 20 miles every Sunday morning for 6 months, in addition to two shorter runs each week) that ended up plantar fasciitis and I had to take 4-5 month off.
I stopped doing that sort of weekly long run after that and did a lot more in the 6-10 miles range.
Then during and immediately post-COVID shutdowns, I just started running every time I felt stressed about something, and I started to neglect all the other holistic movements that complement running.
This ended up leading to a weird twinge in my hip that 2 years of focused strength training hasn't eliminated. Doctor says there is nothing structural but I don't run any more and I miss it often. There is a flow state I seem to get in somewhere just under to just over an hour in to a run.
The only other time I ever get in to that wonderful flow state is every once in a while when playing guitar, but it's rare.
I does feel good to run, and I miss it.
When I started running, I hated it. I had to force myself to do it.
A funny thing happened after about a year. I realized I was looking forward to the run, and missed it when I wasn't.
But it took a whole year :-/
I do 10K twice a week, but walking speed with a 15kg backpack for load training. It is safer on my joints and pushes my body harder but obviously takes much longer than running.
What's your secret to longevity? Do you not push tempo to, hopefully, lessen the stress on your body?
Not OP, but I’ve been running competitively for 50 years (yes, I can collect Social Security). I ran 10x20” sprints yesterday, I’ll do tempo later this week. I still race, from cross country to ultramarathons. I ran cross country nationals this past year and didn’t embarrass myself, I’ll run a 12 hour race in April.
My secret? Genetics. I used to tell people that would ask about what I know about their injuries: “I don’t really know, I don’t get injured.” That isn’t true anymore, I’ve been nursing plantar fasciitis for about six months now. But I will say this about injuries: if it doesn’t get better in a couple of days, take a little time off, and see a doctor if it persists more than a couple of weeks. And my other “secret” is to be reasonable about your mileage. OP has the right idea with a few runs a week at a reasonable distance. I don’t do that, that’s probably why my foot hurts right now. You can miss a day, none of us are going to the Olympics.
Otherwise, after 40, don’t just run. Do yoga, lift weights, ride a bicycle once in a while. Sacrifice a run if you have to so you can lift twice a week, you’re not getting any stronger. Take ten minutes with a YouTube video to do some yoga, you’re definitely not getting any more flexible. You should do these things when you’re young, but they are almost a requirement after age 50.
The best way for me to avoid injury is to just not run if I dont feel good. If I dont sleep well, or feel like I am getting a little sick, I just take the day off. If my ankle or knee doesnt feel quite right, I skip my run.
To maintain my fitness, I do a mix of gym strength training, bike riding, and running, which also helps reduce some stress from any one type of training.
I've been running about the same amount of years, starting at age 38, including sometimes as many as 14 runs of 26.2 or longer in a year.
Keeping 80% or more of the volume at an easy effort is part of that. I think diet helps, because depending on what you eat, you are could be contributing to more or less inflammation in the body, which both could make injury more likely and recovery slower. I eat whole-food, plant-based.
I expect a good stretching routine would also aid injury prevention, but I've been pretty lousy about that most of the time.
I don't push myself that hard. If I don't feel that hot (slept poorly, sick recently), I'll do a shorter run.
Average heart rate is around 140.
> Note the paradox here: one of the principles of training is to stimulate the body, to “wear it out” at a given moment in time in order to trigger the physiological processes that will lead to improved capabilities, the fight against fatigue… and, ultimately, increased resistance to physical stress.
A somewhat recent paper:
Systematic review and meta-analysis of antioxidants with or without exercise training improving muscle condition in older adults
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12491480/
Seems to imply that as we get older, antioxidants might help the body recover from exercise. More specifically, antioxidants may help resolve exercise induced inflammation in adults aged over 55 years.
So it seems that, yes, as you get older, its easier for the body to wear down, but this can be mitigated somewhat.
Nursing a sore right Achilles as I read this...
reading some popular media from around 1900 in the USA, it seemed to be a common perception that people who trained for track and field events generally expect a short life somehow.
If you read about their wellness and performance enhancing drugs, there's good reason they died young.
For example, the 1904 Olympic marathon, the organizer believed drinking water was a bad idea while exercising and the winner took a mix of brandy, strychnine and egg whites during the race.
The Wikipedia article on that race is a must-read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletics_at_the_1904_Summer_O...
I don't understand this, didn't they feel like crap all the time with such diet?
2 replies →
Yes
I mean the consensus is that to improve you kinda have to put a certain level of unusually high stress on your body. While amateurs do it at a lower level, amateurs likely like the genetics that makes increases resistance to slows down the wearing process and also lack regular constant monitoring of exercise intensity, frequency, rests, diet etc.
TLDR: no, they do not wear out the body in the same way
It depends on the intensity level. In the pandemic of 2020, I ran 26.2 mile runs at an easy effort for 5 weekends in row in the spring and 6 in the fall, generally with my easy effort getting faster as I went. Rather than the sequence of big runs wearing my out, I was getting stronger.
Now, if I had tried to run every one at "race pace", I would likely be trashed or injured by the end from insufficient recovery.