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Comment by ggm

1 day ago

If true, unlikely to help the working poor flying (or attempting to fly) because recourse to courts here is in the realms of the rich or benificent.

So, Frommers should fund a test case.

How many of the “working poor” can afford to fly and don’t have a drivers license?

All 50 states and 5 US territories issue RealID compliant drivers license/ID

  • Flying domestically is usually cheaper than driving once you get past the range of a tank of gas or two. Also, RealID isn't fully permeated yet - my state won't fully phase out non-RealIDs until 2029.

    • "once you get past the range of a tank of gas or two."

      This is like the folks who say flying is more carbon friendly than driving. It's wrong, you're comparing a vehicle running cost with one passenger vs a full vehicle normalized by its capacity.

      No one flies 30 mi commutes.

      Few drive 600+ mi empty or alone.

      5 replies →

    • For a single person going between two major metro areas, for sure.

      But a lot of the working poor have families and travel to/from places that aren't major metro areas, and this can change the math really fast.

      7 replies →

  • RealID licenses cost extra where I live. Your job can buy you a plane ticket but they can't get you through TSA.

    • > RealID licenses cost extra where I live.

      Where is that? I’m curious.

      Around here, RealID is just what you’re issued when you renew various forms of ID. I don’t even recall an option to get a non-RealID version.

      5 replies →

  • > How many of the “working poor” can afford to fly and don’t have a drivers license?

    What he really means is illegals who have fake ids who now can't get RealIDs.

    • Undocumented immigrants can have authentic, non-"RealID" ids, as things such as drivers licenses are the purview of the states, and infringement there upon is an attack on their constitutional sovereignty. California, for example, is perfectly happy to give out drivers licenses to anybody who can establish residency and pass the test, since there's no sense in creating a double jeopardy situation wherein because someone has committed one crime (illegally immigrating to California), they are forced to commit an additional crime (driving without a license). It's the same reason the IRS gives you a spot to declare your bribes and other illegal income.

      3 replies →

    • What exactly makes RealID more secure than the drivers license my state has issued for the last 20 years?

The poor trying to fly is exactly why economy and even "premium economy" seating sucks and is getting worse for everyone else not is business class.

  • Would be nice if we could get rid of them, eh?

    • I sure do want to get rid of the entire concept of "economy" class.

      If all seats were business class, than economics of scale would kick in and average ticket prices would be more like 2X per seat rather than the 5-10X that you pay for business class vs economy.

      Flying is a war-crime in the sky for anyone not in business class.

      1 reply →

It’s annoying we don’t offer passport cards for free to people as a national government credential. The cost is similar to this fee, and your app and photo could be taken by TSA right at the checkpoint. You head to your flight after identity proofed, and your passport card could then be mailed to you.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/need-pa...

  • It is, but I think that's a separate issue. There's no authorization, let alone a mandate, to prove identity to move about. The mission, ostensibly, is to make air travel safe by ensuring that passengers don't bring dangerous items onto the plane. It's not to track who is going where.

    • > The mission, ostensibly, is to make air travel safe by ensuring that passengers don't bring dangerous items onto the plane.

      No, it is to make it safe for any reason, which goes beyond whether or not they brought box cutters.

      4 replies →

    • I didn't personally experience it (I was too young), but I think that was part of "the mission" since pre-9/11. The point of the ID check is to make sure the boarding ticket and ID match.

      In effect that tracks who is going where.

      1 reply →

  • You could even double them up as government issued voter-ID and save all that hassle every 4 years. Or the current round of random stop-and-search going on...

    • The people eligible for passports are not the same group of people eligible for voter id since there are a few jurisdictions where non-citizens can vote in certain elections. Voting is also a responsibility of the states (even at the federal level), so there isn't really such thing as a federal voter id since each state has different eligibility requirements for voters that don't necessarily align with passport eligibility. Additionally, passport cards aren't interchangeable with passports in most countries.

      Also, every four years? Elections happen more or less constantly in this country at some level or another. Federal elections are every two years, BTW, and that's if we ignore special elections for federal candidates. You should learn more about the system you live in.

      The current round of stop-and-search would be enabled by making passport cards or some form of universal id. The current legal reality is that you do not need to prove your citizenship on demand if you are already in the US as a citizen. The burden of proof - rightly in my opinion - lies with the government to prove that you are not a citizen. Frankly, I'm quite uncomfortable with "paper's please" entering the US law enforcement repertoire. The fourth amendment was pretty clear about this.

      With the CBP using mere presence validated by facial id only at legally protected protests as reason to withdraw Global Entry enrollment, it seems more and more clear that we do not need to be giving more power to the people who do not understand the 4th and first amendments. Removing people from Global Entry for protected first speech is, afaict, directly in violation of the first amendment even if Global Entry is a "privilege"

      2 replies →

    • And also provide an API for online services to use so we are not beholden to Alphabet and Apple.

      And while they’re at it, provide an electronic money account that allows for free and instant transfers.

      But then how would we waste so many societal resources letting investors profit from basic infrastructure?

      3 replies →

    • "government issued voter-ID"

      Gasp! Checking for IDs while voting is fascist! It's like Germany 1937.

  • ~~~While it's not a passport, I believe most states have free id cards that are "realid" compliant.~~~

    Edit: I'm wrong.

    • > I believe most states have free id cards that are "realid" compliant.

      None in the mid-Atlantic or SE that I've seen. Some states offer free gov docs under limited programs, eg:unaccompanied homeless youth.

      2 replies →