Comment by PunchyHamster
9 hours ago
The point is really that you can only evaluate which of alternatives is better once you have working product with data big enough - else it's just basically following trends and hoping your barely informed decision won't be wrong.
Postgres is widely used enough with enough engineering company blog posts that the vast majority of NotPostgres requests already have a blog post that either demonstrates that pg falls over at the scale that’s being planned for or it doesn’t.
If they don’t, the trade off for NotPostgres is such that it’s justifiable to force the engineer to run their own benchmarks before they are allowed to use NotPostgres
Agree to disagree here. I see a world where developers need to think about (reasonable) scale from day one, or at least very early. We’ve been seeing this play out at ClickHouse - the need for purpose-built OLAP is reducing from years to months. Also integration with ClickHouse is few weeks of effort for potentially significantly faster performance for analytics.
Reasonable scale means... what exactly?
Here's my opinion: just use postgres. If you're experienced enough to not when I say that, go for it, the advice isn't for you. If you aren't, I'm probably saving you from yourself. "Reasonable scale" to these people could mean dozens of inserts per second, which is why people talking vagueries around scale is madenning to me. If you aren't going to actually say what that means, you will lead people who don't know better down the wrong path.
I see a world where developers need to think about REASONABLE scale from day one, with all caps and no parentheses.
I've sat in on meetings about adding auth rate limiting, using Redis, to an on-premise electron client/Node.js server where the largest installation had 20 concurrent users and the largest foreseeable installation had a few thousand, in which every existing installation had an average server CPU utilisation of less than a percent.
Redis should not even be a possibility under those circumstances. It's a ridiculous suggestion based purely on rote whiteboard interview cramming. Stick a token_bucket table in Postgres.
I'm also not convinced that thinking about reasonable scale would lead to a different implementation for most other greenfield projects. The nice thing about shoving everything into Postgres is that you nearly always have a clear upgrade path, whereas using Redis right from the start might actually make the system less future-proof by complicating any eventual migration.
Ack, agreed. But there’s a better way to communicate than making blanket statements like “just use Postgres.” For example, you could say “Postgres is the default database,” etc.
Don’t get me wrong—I’m a huge huge fan of Postgres. I’ve worked at Postgres companies for a decade, started a Postgres company, and now lead a Postgres service within a company! But I prefer being real rather than doing marketing hype and blanket love.
[flagged]
That wasn’t my intention though to mention my workplace multiple times for the sake of PR. Try to avoid being that, atleast on hn. :)
3 replies →