Comment by whynotminot
21 days ago
This is a fading but common sentiment on hacker news.
There’s a lot of engineers who will refuse to wake up to the revolution happening in front of them.
I get it. The denialism is a deeply human response.
21 days ago
This is a fading but common sentiment on hacker news.
There’s a lot of engineers who will refuse to wake up to the revolution happening in front of them.
I get it. The denialism is a deeply human response.
Where is all the amazing software and/or improvements in software quality that is supposed to be coming from this revolution?
So far the only output is the "How I use AI blogs", AI marketing blogs, more CVEs, more outages, degraded software quality, and not much of shipping anything.
Is there any examples of real products and not just anecdotes of "I'm 10x more productive!"?
I was in the same mindset until I actually took the Claude code course they offer. I was doing so much wrong.
The two main takeaways. Create a CLAUDE.md file that defines everything about the project. Have Claude feed back into the file when it makes mistakes and how to fix them.
Now it creates well structured code and production level applications. I still double check everything of course, but the level of errors is much lower.
An example application it created from a CLAUDE.md I wrote. The application reads multiple PDF's, finds the key stakeholders and related data, then generates a network graph across those files and renders it in an explorable graph in Godot.
That took 3 hours to make, test. It also supports OpenAI (lmstudio), Claude and Ollama for its LLM callouts.
What issue I can see happening is the duplication of assets in work. Instead of finding an asset someone built, people have been creating their own.
Sounds like a skill issue. I’ve seen it rapidly increase the speed of delivery in my shop.
Why is it so hard to find examples?
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Its only revolutionary if you think engineers were slow before or software was not being delivered fast enough. Its revolutionary for some people sure, but everyone is in a different situation, so one man's trash can be other man's treasure. Most people are treading both paths as automation threatens their livelihood and work they loved, also still not able to understand why would people pay to companies that are actively trying to convince your employer that your job is worthless.
Even If I like this tech, I still dont want to support the companies who make it. Yet to pay a cent to these companies, still using the credits given to me by my employer.
Of course software hasn’t been delivered fast enough. There is so so so much of the world that still needs high quality software.
I think there are four fundamental issues here for us...
1. There are actually less software jobs out there, with huge layoffs still going on, so software engineering as a profession doesn't seem to profit from AI.
2. The remaining engineers are expected by their employers to ship more. Even if they can manage that using AI, there will be higher pressure and higher stress on them, which makes their work less fulfilling, more prone to burnout etc.
3. Tied to the previous - this increases workism, measuring people, engineers by some output benchmark alone, treating them more like factory workers instead of expert, free-thinking individuals (often with higher education degrees). Which again degrades this profession as a whole.
3. Measuring developer productivity hasn't really been cracked before either, and still after AI, there is not a lot of real data proving that these tools actually make us more productive, whatever that may be. There is only anecdotal evidence: I did this in X time, when it would have taken me otherwise Y time - but at the same time it's well known that estimating software delivery timelines is next to impossible, meaning, the estimation of "Y" is probably flawed.
So a lot of things going on apart from "the world will surely need more software".
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Do you have this same understanding for all the people whose livelihoods are threatened (or already extinct) due to the work of engineers?
Yes, but who did we automate out of a job by building crappy software? Accountants are more threatened by AI than any of the software we created before, same with Lawyers, teachers. We didnt automate any physical labourers out of a job too.
It's insane! We are so far beyond gpt-3.5 and gpt-4. If you're not approaching Claude Code and other agentic coding agents with an open mind with the goal of deriving as much value from them as possible, you are missing out on super powers.
On the flip side, anyone who believes you can create quality products with these tools without actually working hard is also deluded. My productivity is insane, what I can create in a long coding session is incredible, but I am working hard the whole time, reviewing outputs, devising GOOD integration/e2e tests to actually test the system, manually testing the whole time, keeping my eyes open for stereotypically bad model behaviors like creating fallbacks, deleting code to fulfill some objective.
It's actually downright a pain in the ass and a very unpleasant experience working in this way. I remember the sheer flow state I used to get into when doing deep programming where you are so immersed in managing the states and modeling the system. The current way of programming for me doesn't seem to provide that with the models. So there are aspects of how I have programmed my whole life that I dearly miss. Hours used to fly past me without me being the wiser due to flow. Now that's no longer the case most of the times.