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Comment by zeroonetwothree

17 days ago

Total US GDP is ~31 trillion, so that's only like 5%. I think it's conceivable that AI could result in ~5% of GDP in additional revenue. Not saying it's guaranteed, but it's hardly an implausible figure. And of course it's even less considering global GDP.

Yup. If you follow the links to the original JP Morgan quote, it's not crazy:

> Big picture, to drive a 10% return on our modeled AI investments through 2030 would require ~$650 billion of annual revenue into perpetuity, which is an astonishingly large number. But for context, that equates to 58bp of global GDP, or $34.72/month from every current iPhone user...

  • > or $34.72/month from every current iPhone user...

    As a current iPhone user, I'm not signing up for that especially if it is on top of the monthly cell service fee.

    I do realize though that you were trying to provide useful context.

    • But think about it this way: something simple like Slack charges $9/month/person and companies already pay that on many behalf. How hard would it be to imagine all those same companies (and lots more) would pay $30/month/employee for something something AI? Generating an extra $400 per year in value, per employee, isn't that much extra.

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  • $650bb / ($34.72 * 12 months) = 1.56 billion users.

    That's far larger than the population of the USA (unclear to me if that 650bb number is global or USA only) but by sheer scale this is assuming that these companies can collect that fee from a global customer base - including users in developing economies, EU, China, etc. and after the middleman fees are accounted for.

    The comments in this thread seem to be thinking within the context of 'the poorest in their nation'. This calculation assumes collecting this fee from among 'the poorest in the world'.

    Sure, 1.56bb users could also be interpreted as 'the wealthiest 20% of the world'. But the tail is especially long on this curve given how wealth is concentrated in a small percentage of the global population (1% of users have 50% of wealth).

    • Microsoft, Google, Apple, Amazon, Nvidia, etc have been able to collect large amounts of revenue from a global customer base so I don't think the assumption was that unreasonable.

      Obviously, China will protect its homegrown AI industry. Current geopolitics trending towards US decoupling in Europe might slow it. But under the old status quo, US AI would have been rapidly adopted in the EU (and it still might. It depends greatly on how much of the Trump Doctrine outlasts the current administration).

      Developing countries eventually adopt new technologies. First they adopted personal computers and became customers of Microsoft, then they adopted the Internet and became customers of Google, they adopted smartphones and became customers of Apple. Eventually they will adopt AI and become customers of someone. The question is whether it will be US tech or Chinese tech.

  • Personally I would be astonished if LLMs percolating through the global economy doesn’t give a 50bp bump from here on out.

    Even if scaling hit a wall, commoditizing what we have now would do it. We have so much scaffolding and organizational overhang with the current models, it’s crazy.

    • Agreed. Applying the intelligence we already have more broadly will have a huge impact. That's been true for a while now, and it keeps getting more true as models keep getting better.

It's conceivable to us working in white collar knowledge jobs where our input and output is language. Will it also make 5% more homes built by a carpenter?

  • It might provide cover to lay off more than 5% of us (the LLM can create a work-like text product that, as far as upper management can tell, is indistinguishable from the real thing!), then we will have to go find jobs swinging hammers to build houses. Well, somebody’s got to do it.

    • The idea that companies need "cover" to perform layoffs (particularly in the US) doesn't make sense to me. Tech companies, all companies lay people off regularly. (To a first order approximation) if a worker is a net positive to a company then the company will want to keep them, and if they are not then the company will want to get rid of them. AI or no AI.

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  • That seems pretty reasonable, yes. That is like asking if putting a low-cost Ops Research specialist in every company could make a 5% difference in operations - yes it could. Making resource-efficient decisions is not something that comes naturally to humans and having a system that consistently makes high quality game-theoretic recommendations would be huge.

    Bunch of tiny companies would love to hire a mathematician to optimise what they are doing to get a 5-10% improvement. Unfortunately a 5-10% improvement in a small business can't justify the cost of hiring another person, and good mathematicians with business sense and empathy are a rare commodity.

    • Lots of jobs like daycare, teachers, cleaning, the material costs are near zero and your ability to increase productivity using technology is very low.

      You can reduce quality of cleaning. But it's very hard to clean faster and better at the same time.

      These industries are not going to be optimized by an AI. The only optimization is lower overhead or lower salaries.

      Sure, we could have robots in daycare, but I don't think lack of AI is why my wife would have concerns :)

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    • If that seems reasonable to you then you don't know anything about residential construction. The problems that homebuilders face aren't amenable to mathematical solutions. They have to deal with permitting issues, corrupt / incompetent government officials, supplier delays, bad weather, flakey workers, etc. The notion of a 5% improvement from LLM is ludicrously naive.

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Have you ever seen US GDP go up 5% yearly for several years?

  • That’s the bet! last time we had that growth was for a few years during the dotcom, followed by a lost decade of growth in tech stocks

  • Doesn't have to go up. It's also fine if they replace other parts of the economy.

  • The quote is about a one-time increase in growth of 5 percentage points. Not multiple years or forever.

    Or obviously it can be spread out, e.g. ~1% additional increase over 5 years.

    • It cannot be sustained with just one-time growth. Capital always has to grow, or it will decrease. If this bubble actually manages to deliver interest, this will lead to the bubble growing even larger, driving even more interest.

  • China did it. It’s not inconceivable.

    • In 1979, median income in China was $100 USD a year.

      In 1979, median income in the US was $16,530 USD a year.

      Not exactly an apples to apples comparison.

    • Did China really do it though? We can clearly see that China has achieved huge economic growth since Deng Xiaoping took control. But the specific numbers can't be attempted to be believed. Communist Party officials at every level heavily manipulate the official economic data to meet their annual goals and no independent auditing is allowed.

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    • By pulling ten million people a year from farms into factories and ploughing 40% of GDP into infrastructure and education. Sounds like a sound analogy to me.

It is not a hardly implausible figure given the wide range of human economic activity, that's a common flaw in economic thinking when small percentages of huge numbers seem realistic ("my business plan is modest and will achieve a tiny 0.01% of the global market to become one of the biggest companies in the world, very plausible")

So for that GDP gotta show growth of over 5% extra to other growth sources (so total yearly growth will be pretty high). I doubt this will materialise

It's plausible 5-10 years from now. I believe the entire AI revenue in 2025 was like $50B. It's not going to 10x in a year or two.

You're saying that the entire increase in US GDP goes into the pockets of like 5 companies.

  • Or we’re seeing a world where corporations dwarf countries.

    Apple will be around in a hundred years.

    Will the USA?

    • Tech companies never last. Apple will miss a disruptive innovation or make a key strategic error causing them to lose their dominant spot. Look at the top tech companies 50 years ago: how are they doing today?

    • Is like the transition from monarchies to nation states.

      By the 19th century, the rise of nation-states accelerated due to the spread of nationalism, the decline of feudal structures, and the unification of countries like Germany (1871) and Italy (1861). Centralized governments, uniform laws, national education systems, and a sense of collective identity became defining features. The French Revolution (1789) played a pivotal role by promoting citizenship, legal equality, and national sovereignty over dynastic rule

      Maybe in 2300 they'll say something similar about nationalism

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I’m sorry, but 5% of GDP is an absurd figure. You’re saying $1 out of every $20 that does anything in our economy should be on AI? That seems insane to me.

I love HN, you can't get stuff like this anywhere else, the DKE from posters here - you can't get it anywhere else!