← Back to context

Comment by ieie3366

12 days ago

That's crazy. This is core business critical software but they just YOLO critical changes without any automated tests? this PR would be insta-rejected in the small SAAS shop I work at.

If you think you can do better you're welcome to do better. I say this without a hint of sarcasm. This is how open source works. It's a do–ocracy, not a democracy. Whoever makes a telnet server gets to decide how the telnet server works and how much testing it gets before release.

  • Maybe the lesson here is to stop letting the GNU folks do things, if this is what they do. This is only one example of craziness coming out of the GNU camp.

    • Or, flip the responsibility to what it has always been understood to be, when using open source software from random volunteers (some being bad actors) on the internet for anything remotely critical: audit the source.

    • GNU doesn’t provide labor, only organizational tools like mailing lists and whatnot. The projects that GNU supports are still run by individual volunteers. If you want it done better then please volunteer so that you can be the one doing it better.

      3 replies →

Culture has changed a lot since the 20th century and older projects can have antiquated norms around things like testing. I was just listening to a recent podcast talking about how worrisome it is that OpenSSL has a casual culture about testing[1] and was reminded about how normal that used to be. I think in the case of telnetd you also have the problem that it’s been deprecated for multiple decades so I’d bet that they struggle even more than average to find maintainer time.

1. https://securitycryptographywhatever.com/2026/02/01/python-c...

Even with automated tests you'd need to think of this exploit right? Perhaps fuzzing would have got it. The mailing lists says they proved it successful on

- OpenIndiana

- FreeBSD

- Debian GNU/Linux

So not complete YOLO.

See https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-inetutils/2015-03/msg...

FWIW, a well known LLM agent, when I asked for a review of the patch, did suggest it was dodgy but didn't pick up the severity of how dodgy it was.

Most 90’s era software had zero tests. Nobody gave it a second thought.

  • This is quite untrue as a blanket statement. The problem is that there was massive cultural variation: if you installed a Perl module from CPAN you probably ran hundreds of tests. If you ran a C program, it ranged from nothing to “run this one input and don’t crash” to exhaustive suites. PHP tended towards nothing with a handful of surprises.

    As a data point, my first tech job was QA for a COBOL compiler vendor. They supported roughly 600 permutations of architecture, operating system, and OS version with a byte-coded runtime and compiler written in C. I maintained a test runner and suite with many thousands of tests, ranging from unit tests to things like Expect UI tests. This was considered routine in the compiler vendor field, and in the scientific computing space I moved into. I worked with someone who independently reproduced the famous Pentium FDIV bug figuring out why their tests failed, which surprised no one because that was just expected engineering.

    Then you had the other end of the industry where there was, say, 50k lines of Visual Basic desktop app where they didn’t even use version control software. At a later job, I briefly encountered a legacy system which had 30 years of that where they had the same routine copied in half a dozen places, modified slightly because when the author had fixed a bug they weren’t sure if it would break something else so they just created a copy and updated just the module they were working on.

    • True, it is colored by my own personal experienced. I remember CPAN, perl, and installing modules with tests. I also remember my day job: a 500,000 line C and C++ code base with literally 5 automated tests that nobody ever ran!

      1 reply →

  • Early '90s maybe. By the late '90s people knew tests were a good idea, and many even applied that in practice.

It can't be critical business software if the business to which it is critical isn't paying anything for it.

/s