Comment by brettgriffin
3 days ago
Put winter tires on your vehicles. I'm surprised by the number of people who tool around in snow and ice in 'all season' tires.
Also, that writing tone is obnoxious.
3 days ago
Put winter tires on your vehicles. I'm surprised by the number of people who tool around in snow and ice in 'all season' tires.
Also, that writing tone is obnoxious.
I find it quite funny. I read it as if he is obnoxious towards himself, because the lessons presented are learned the hard way.
I'm in the foothills in Northern California, and I've never met anyone here that changes their ties out for winter. When there's chain controls, they'll let you through if you have winter rated tires, including all-season, and all-wheel drive, otherwise you need chains.
Everyone I know who drives a lot in the snow gets a vehicle with all-wheel drive and everyone else carries chains. (really they're cables, on a small vehicle)
The difference between what winter-only tires can handle vs winter-rated all-season tires is so minimal that they're not with getting. Chance ate conditions are either fine for the all-season tie or there so bad that the difference is inconsequential and you need all-wheel drive or chains.
I've only heard of people changing their tires on the Midwest, where snowfalls are in the inches, not feet.
https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2014/12/01/all-wheel-drive-d...
FTA:
"If anyone gets an AWD vehicle “for safety” but uses it with all-season tires, they have performed a Consumer Sucka Fail. A front wheel drive vehicle with snow tires would have more grip.
According to this Consumer Reports test (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXjzYbpt9Ow) on snow tires vs. AWD, the tires were by far the most important factor. And only 12% of AWD vehicle owners bothered to put snow tires on their vehicle, meaning 88% of all-wheel-drive vehicle purchases were wasted, because the drivers could have achieved better performance at lower cost in a front-wheeler with snow tires."
> The difference between what winter-only tires can handle vs winter-rated all-season tires is so minimal that they're not with getting. Chance ate conditions are either fine for the all-season tie or there so bad that the difference is inconsequential and you need all-wheel drive or chains.
You couldn't be more wrong.
The big difference is that snow tires are self cleaning; everything else ends up being ice covered slicks after a bit of driving.
Interesting, here in Sweden it’s mandatory to change tires. Once I did it a bit late and drove on some ice, just a little. The car was like on ice skates for a little while .
Driving discipline, culture, and rules in North America are Mickey Mouse.
The reality of car dependency there means that there are people driving and owning cars who can't really afford to do it properly, nor do they know they need to do it properly (e.g., having a second set of tires for the winter). You can see this evidenced by the rust buckets on the road that look like they are one pothole away from losing part of the vehicle body. Deferred maintenance and investment everywhere and in everything …
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I wonder if it's a carryover of an old regulation that used to make sense. Modern all-season tires are better in snow than the best winter tires were several decades ago.
Also, you need studs or chains to get traction on ice. The difference between a winter tire and a summer tire is the temperature range where the rubber stays flexible. When the rubber gets hard, it will keep its shape instead of complying with the surface of the road, so it loses traction quicker. Ice is flat, so there's no difference between tire types, and there's nothing to grip on to.
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Indeed. The first thing I do when buying a second-hand car (I never buy new cars, what a waste of money) is to buy the best winter tires (and summer tires if needed) that money can buy (lots of that available, as I save so much on the car). I never have any problems in any conditions (and there are a lot of "conditions..")
All seasons tires are rubbish. Also the "new" ones (re sister comment).
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I went to school at Michigan Tech where we would regularly get over 300 inches in the winter. I drove a Honda civic with snow tires. It was fine even on steep slopes. Winter tires keep you from loosing traction and sliding off the road. AWD helps you get back on the road after you slide off.
From what I've heard from people driving them, AWD is better than FWD going uphill, but a lot worse going downhill.
All-wheel drive doesn't help you at all where it is most important, and that is in braking. Having all-wheel drive only helps you get up to a dangerous speed faster when the grip is low
As others have said, this is very wrong. I live in Vermont an Duse "all season" tires as my summer tires on both my Subaru and my 4wd truck. I absolutely change to winter tires on both vehicles (studded, on the truck), and the difference in snowy conditions is night and day.
Montana here. Everyone that can afford to changes their tires. Costco tire center is a s.show in November and May. Nobody uses chains except for un-maintained roads. Obviously nobody buys a 2WD vehicle here.
> The difference between what winter-only tires can handle vs winter-rated all-season tires is so minimal that they're not with getting.
Yeah.. no. The difference is night and day.
Put on some Nokian Hakkapeliitta tires and prepare to be amazed. The grip on snow is spectacular.
All the years I lived in snow areas I drove a Miata of all things.. RWD, light, no ABS, no TC, 4" clearance. But with Hakkapeliitta tires I never once had any trouble, while people in their trucks and 4x4s were stuck on the side of the road due to all-season tires. A true snow tire is a whole different level.
> Northern California ... chain controls
The whole California chain thing is brain damage. The proper safe answer to driving in snow is top quality snow tires, not chains. Chains is the worst possible idea. The chain laws are laws created by politicians who live in sunny Sacramento and have never seen snow and have no clue.
A car with Hakkapeliittas (Blizzaks are good too) will outhandle a car with chains 100% of the time.
> The proper safe answer to driving in snow is top quality snow tires, not chains. Chains is the worst possible idea. The chain laws are laws created by politicians who live in sunny Sacramento and have never seen snow and have no clue.
Although I understand the sentiment, and agree with the general idea, I must say that living in the mountains, I have encountered snow conditions on uncleared roads where I did not manage to get home due to the icy/slushy/snow depth mixtures encountered on relatively steep sections. I would probably have made it home with chains if I had them, and had bothered to put the on.
The difference between two-wheel and all-wheel drive is night and day, compared to the difference between winter and summer tires. Even then, it all goes out the door when conditions get icy and the only option is studs or chains, to get any traction.
Chain controls, and really all winter regulations, like snow load factors in buildings and whatnot, are created locally, not by the state. Most politicians are from Southern California, and all the state cares about is air condition efficiency and water usage, as though everyone lives in the desert.
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No, the rubber compound in winter tires are vastly superior to all seasons on snow/ice, it helps you actually control the vehicle.
I’ve shoveled meters of snowfall this year, our roads are just packed down snow, no pavement.
You’re dangerously wrong. Winter tires make a very large difference in braking. If they’re so inconsequential, why are they mandatory in many northern places?
Culture has an impact on what people choose to do. I’ve seen so many Americans with your point of view. It’s maddening. Winter tires save lives!
All-season tires are not winter rated. They are 3.5 season at best. True winter usage only exists in all-weather or snow tires with the 3PMS symbols.
I have some 3PMS all season tires: Michelin Crossclimate 2. So far seem to be doing well on my FWD Chevy Bolt EV. I live in Boston though and we don't often get enough snow to really need snow tires. Also I usually ride my bike when it's snowy instead of driving.
It depends. I use All Seasons in winter and have for over 40 years without issue because 9 years out of ten winter weather means 0.25” of snow one night during winter. The tenth year we might have three inches over a couple of days.
The writing tone is obviously self-deprecating.
Around this parts of Europe, they are mandatory.
Eh, all seasons do you just fine. Not worth the effort to put winter tires on, imo.
You’re right usually (about not needing blizzaks) but there’s important nuance here. There are warm all season (with usual M+S stamped on, this just means tread pattern, nothing about compound) and winter all-season with a compatible compound for cold conditions. The industry created a logo for the tires some years back it’s like 3 peak mountain snowflake or something. This ensures the compound is soft enough to keep gripping in freezing temperatures. It’s required in some jurisdictions (Quebec I think and maybe some lake effect zones)
There is lot of variation between tires. From summer, to all season, to European winter to Nordic winter(studdles or studded). Only Nordic ones designed specifically for snow and ice are really usable in conditions where there is often snow and ice. They fare worse in wet not freezing conditions and ofc in dry.
But not all winter tires are made equivalent.
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Difference is pretty big if it’s icy like breaking 100 meters vs 10 meters. Especially if there’s wildlife like reindeers/moose’s you are going to do emergency breathing semi regularly.
If it's icy there's no difference at all. The only tyres that do anything on ice are the ones with spikes or chains.
If it's snowy a good modern all weather tyre can hold its own, but will brake a few feet later than a good winter tyre.
In all other conditions a good all weather is a lot better than winter tyres, and pretty close to a good summer tyre.
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