Comment by BinStorm
7 days ago
I love the fervor with which this is written, but the threat is so weak I literally chuckled.
Imagine your an exec or manager on the team for keyboard development. You read this, get to the end to discover the user is gonna switch devices for... 2 whole calander years?
What's that amount to? Maybe 2 device upgrades on If your a die hard gotta have the newest latest model phone each year. Then what? you'll be back?
The threat doesnt even carry the weight losing a user for a 2 year blip, registers more as a dropped ping request then a drop in revenue.
If meant to be whimsical sure nailed it. To be fair I mean any boycot with a large scale mfg carries about the same weight. just thought it fell flat as much as anything.
I think this is the wrong read on the “threat”. One user going out of their way to spent time writing this post is a canary in the coal mine. Most users never give feedback, they just churn. This is the same reason your toothpaste has a phone number on the back - that one random person who cares deeply calls the number and provides invaluable feedback on the product.
It’s not about the one person, it’s about that person representing tens/hundreds/thousands of customers. This feedback is a gift to a product manager that listens.
It's one of the downsides of having dedicated and fervent fans. They obfuscate problems regular users are having by drowning them out with praise for Apple.
During my last weeks on the iPhone, I reached out to various Apple discussion spaces on the web for help with some problems I was having.
I was met not with assistance, but ridicule. The majority of the people "helping" were saying some variation of "you're holding it wrong" or "I personally don't have that problem" (which is such a funny quirk of the Apple fandom - I didn't ask if you are having that problem, I'm asking for help achieving a specific outcome).
You can even see examples of this sort of behavior in that post about the window resize handles for the latest version of macOS. There were Apple fans saying some variation of it's not an actual problem, that they don't have that problem, that they don't use the window resize handles anyway, or that the post was an exaggeration. Turns out it was an actual problem that Apple addressed with a bug fix. Of course, Apple fans, being shameless, will jump to reframing the discussion from "Apple can do no wrong" to "See, Apple listens! You know who doesn't listen? Microsoft!!" I get it, not a monolith, but recognizing Apple fans aren't a monolith doesn't make them less off-putting.
The final nail in the coffin for me for the ecosystem was getting called a child for *checks notes* making the adult decision to move to Android to have a phone that did the things I needed (with much fewer annoying, uncritical fans and a lot more people who genuinely want to help).
So, yes, there is a danger in letting the fandom do all the work and laughing off "threats" of user exoduses. The conduct of Apple fans coupled with Apple's ignorance to regular users' feedback soured me to the ecosystem. It would take a lot to bring me back. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way.
Exactly! The fact that this has 300+ votes and is on HN's front page (and is just CONSTANTLY brought up on Reddit), should really tell you how fed up people are with the iOS keyboard experience.
I legit feel like Apple should actually make a public statement like "we hear you, we're working on it!" because it is actually bad PR at this point.
Apple is allergic to admitting anything. They go straight from "there is no problem" to "this update brings improvements".
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I feel like the people who could move the needle don’t actually type on their iPhones, they pay someone to do that.
Its presence on Hacker News and Reddit tells you that the folks who use Hacker News and Reddit are fed up with the keyboard. Most people don't care. Tech nerds do, and that's not nothing, but it's not necessarily a majority either. No one I know outside of tech brings up the keyboard to me, ever.
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> Most users never give feedback, they just churn.
Sure, but this is a duopoly and it's not as if the competition is perfect. A lot of issues like this simply don't matter because of that. The response that goes through the PM's head is likely to be along the lines of, "What you gonna do, switch to Android? Ha!"
> This is the same reason your toothpaste has a phone number on the back - that one random person who cares deeply calls the number and provides invaluable feedback on the product.
You'll notice that tech companies go out of their way to avoid offering that option.
Yup and it's clearly getting attention.
> Most users never give feedback, they just churn
Uh...
We're talking about iPhone here. You can read complains about iPhone online all the time. When you have more than a billion of users, lack of feedback is the least problem you concern.
as a counterpoint to that, i'm an iOS user, i use the apple keyboard every day, and it's fine? i don't really understand the complaint. it's clearly not "broken".
and i also never give feedback. there's probably hundreds of millions of iOS users out there who agree with me. so maybe don't change the behaviour just because this guy is mad?
The article ended up making it to HN and, at least the discussion I'm seeing, is highly critical of Apple's recent design changes. There isn't a threat you can construct that'd throw 20% of Apple's profit into uncertainty, but losing their mantle of technical excellence is something that will deeply damage Apple in the long term. Microsoft seems hell bent on being a worse example right now but if the grade of Apple's products slips too much then the price markup they enjoy will be eroded which is a very dangerous cycle to fall into.
HN can be as critical as they want of Apple's design changes. Until they vote with their wallets (they won't, because most people here are ideologically tied to Apple) no one inside Apple cares.
I was "ideologically tied" to using products created by people who clearly cared more about creating them and my experience using them than their competitors. That era seems to have finally passed.
If this phone dies before they right the ship, I'll be looking around for the first time in almost 20 years.
People complain about everything on HackerNews, if I was Apple I’d 100% ignore us.
The recent kerfluffle has been all the Liquid Glass stuff, I hear lots of people in my offline circle who aren’t reading every phone UI review who are trying various schemes to avoid or mitigate this update. It’s pretty bad! (The keyboard sucking is water under the bridge at this point, I think).
I get what you're saying; but the thing is you can kinda-sorta ignore the Liquid Glass stuff (performance not withstanding on older devices); but the keyboard is a "touch surface" people are actively using every single day.
Kind of a big deal that something you'll likely use every time you pick up your device has been broken now for going on years, with no real movement on the issue.
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There is a possibility that this "threat" could go viral. Now something dumb your company is doing is being discussed everywhere. Companies hate that kind of publicity. It's the kind of thing that sticks around and lingers even after things have been corrected.
It can't go viral until you actually make a post for people to find and promote. Step one has now been completed. Step two is gaining traction.
Your comment makes no sense to me. What in your opinion would be a strong threat? 'Tim Cook, open the suspicion package I sent you in the mail!'?
I mean, this random person added a countdown timer, and after that revealed that when it reaches the end, if Apple hasn’t met some arbitrary demand they’ll leave the platform but probably be back (just in time to spend more money on another device) and that the colour of a phone is enough to get them back.
This is one of the emptiest threats I’ve ever seen. This is about as effective as having a madman inside your house destroying your property with a baseball bat and saying “if you don’t stop smashing my stuff in the next 72 hours, I’ll consider writing mean things about you in my diary”.
No need to get specific. Write a blog post about how the keyboard is broken and say you’re leaving for another platform because of it. It’s not like Apple is going to check when you did it or for how long (or care). The theatrics are unnecessary and laughable, they undermine the whole message. I wouldn’t be surprised if someone inside Apple is sharing this with their colleagues and laughing.
Another random blog post about the broken iOS keyboard would not get any traction. This is getting traction.
I'm pretty sure the author realized that Tim Apple isn't shaking in his boots, looking at the numbers going down. That's not the point, the point is that it's funny and interesting and thus getting attention.
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That's the joke.
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Don’t we all deserve a little whimsy in our lives?
Exactly. So many people missing the whole point.
I actually logged in just to upvote it. Just hoping to boost the signal enough that Apple will actually do something.
I have a similar countdown of my own but is less specific. I’m on iPhone 15 (coming from android) and I know for certain that the next time I’m on the market for a new phone it won’t be an iPhone. I also don’t need a new phone, but the intrusive thoughts to buy a new one are always caused by the faulty keyboard
I somewhat agree with this. There are probably not that many users who purchase(d) Apple hardware but will leave due to the keyboard.
> The threat doesnt even carry the weight losing a user for a 2 year blip
Agreed, but it may be different if there would be more people feeling in a similar way.
> If meant to be whimsical sure nailed it.
It's a bit strange though because there are many things one can critisize Apple for. My main gripe is still Steve Jobs underpaying developers via illegal agreements. Yet people praise him as if he would have been a god. I am not saying he had bad ideas or was a bad designer per se, but some people never even mention criminal activities for their heroes. The court case was mega-clear; that is undeniable. If he would still be alive I'd love to hear what people would say now.
> My main gripe is still Steve Jobs underpaying developers via illegal agreements.
I'm blown away by Apple building their own stores in competition with the franchisees who carried them those lean years.
The threat is weak, the attraction it gets is great.
It was never about loosing one single customer, it's about getting a bad reputation and loosing many more undecided potential customers.
Yeah imagine all those customers, loose to wreak havoc. Would be a shame to lose them …
I don't think the threat is to leave for 2 years then come back. He just doesn't want to commit to leaving forever. Who knows if in a decade it'll be Android with the shitty keyboard (or Apple will have the better Direct Brain Interface, or whatever). Most likely though, if someone switches ecosystems for 2+ years, they're going to get used to the new one and stay there.
I can't believe there are also other people downrange who don't get it, but in case anyone has a broken sarcasm detector:
Yes, this blog post is meant to be whimsical and tongue-in-cheek because the post takes itself too seriously by pretending like one user leaving to another platform (for 2 years GASP!!) with a big scary countdown timer is a credible threat to a multi-trillion dollar company. The real part of the post is the request and complaining about the bug.
Yep, lol. Example 364023 of high prevalence of autism accompanied by an arrogant need to weigh in aggressively despite these people having to had realized by this point in their lives that if something completely doesn't make sense, it's worth sitting it out in the case that it is indeed sarcasm.
> Example 364023 of high prevalence of autism
Excuse me!
As an autistic/ADHD[1], I can assure you that we do get sarcasm, and it's not autism that hinders that ability. In fact, this very post is peak autistic humor. (Deadpan comedy is trademark autism[2]).
>accompanied by an arrogant need to weigh in aggressively
Ding-ding, that's the winner! A necessary and sufficient condition for comments of that sort to appear.
Not exclusive to people on the spectrum either, mind you.
[1] https://romankogan.net/adhd
[2] https://autisticamber.substack.com/p/deadpan-literal-and-loy...
I’m a long term AAPL shareholder and even I see a bit of the hegemonic vibes.
Little people can’t get the attention of large organizations without literally setting themselves on fire. Voting with your feet isn’t going to affect a trillion dollar company at all. Unless maybe you’re Dame Judy Dench.
Interesting idea: celebrity influencer for hire: pay a celebrity to champion your cause/make it go viral. Maybe do a "GoFundMe"-esque model (although, giving celebs even more money will probably not be popular... how about "$$$ for a charity of your choice if you talk about the stupid iPhone keyboard"?)
Unfortunately people of intermediate standing try all the time and get told to go back to their day job and stop dabbling in political action.
Also some of these people would have voted for Reagan so... you know. A person is smart, people are stupid.
Given that the esteemed Dame is almost completely blind and has never positioned herself as a tech influencer or aficionada, I feel that her (thoroughly deserved) prestige and social power might be a little wasted on the grand cause of 'the iOS keyboard could be better'.
I mean, I'd agree with her. But it's hardly Joanna Lumley championing the gurkhas, when she's been saying for years that she can no longer recognise even loved ones standing right in front of her. Apple could do a lot better, but I'm not sure they could improve the keyboard that much.
It's even worse: based on "orange iPhone" they just bought an iPhone 17. So they'll skip the next two iPhones and be back in 2028? Sounds like a standard upgrade cycle.
Yeah I’m boycotting Apple for like 8 years at a time by this standard, I guess. Their hardware lasts a while.
I do wish I could get a “security patches only” update channel, though. Their declining software competency is visible and annoying.
Counting the spark while the house is on fire.
You better believe is not just one user. Read the comments. We are thousands or millions. I‘m really tired of the shitty Keyboard. For a long time I thought it was my fault, now I know is not.
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