Comment by ninjagoo
9 days ago
At some point Insurance is going to require companies to obtain paper copies of any documentation/policies, precisely to avoid this kind of situation. It may take a while to get there though. It'll probably take a couple of big insurance losses before that happens.
Insurance is already moving that direction for cyber policies. Some underwriters now require screenshots or PDF exports of third-party vendor security attestations as part of the application process, not just URLs. The carriers learned the hard way that 'we linked to their SOC 2 landing page' doesn't hold up when that page disappears after an acquisition or rebrand.
> when that page disappears after an acquisition or rebrand.
Sadly, it does not even have to be an acquisition or rebrand. For most companies, a simple "website redo", even if the brand remains unchanged, will change up all the URL's such that any prior recorded ones return "not found". Granted, if the identical attestation is simply at a new url, someone could potentially find that new url and update the "policy" -- but that's also an extra effort that the insurance company can avoid by requiring screen shots or PDF exports.
It sounds like you work at Microsoft, they do that ALL the time.
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We already require all relevant and referenced documents to be uploaded in a contract lifecycle management system.
Yes we have hundreds of identical Microsoft and Aws policies, but it's the only way. Checksum the full zip and sign it as part of the contract, that's literally how we do it
Digital copies will also work I don’t understand why they just don’t save both the URL and the content at the URL when last checked.
I think maybe because the contents of the URL archived locally aren't legally certifiable as genuine - the URL is the canonical source.
That's actually a potentially good business idea - a legally certifiable archiving software that captures the content at a URL and signs it digitally at the moment of capture. Such a service may become a business requirement as Internet archivability continues to decline.
Apparently perma.cc is officially used by some courts in the US. I did use it in addition to the wayback machine when I collected paper trail for a minor retail dispute, but I did not have to use it.
I don't know how exactly it achieves being "legally certifiable", at least to the point that courts are trusting it. Signing and timestamping with independent transparency logs would be reasonable.
https://perma.cc/sign-up/courts
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The first thing you do when you're getting this information is get PDFs from these vendors like their SOC2 attestation etc. You wouldn't just screenshot the page, that would be nuts.
Any vendor who you work with should make it trivial to access these docs, even little baby startups usually make it quite accessible - although often under NDA or contract, but once that's over with you just download a zip and everything is there.
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Is it digitally certifiable if it's not accessible by everyone?
That is: if it's not accessible by a human who was blocked?
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What if the TOS expressly prohibits archiving it, and it's also copyrighted?
Then said writers of TOS should be dragged in front of a judge to be berated, then tarred and feathered, and ran out of the courtroom on a rail.
Having your cake and eating it too should never be valid law.
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I don’t think contracts and agreements that both parties can’t keep copies of are valid in any US jurisdiction.
More likely, there will be trustee services taking care of document preservation, themselves insured in case of data loss.
Isn't the Internet Archive such a trustee service?
Or are you thinking of companies like Iron Mountain that provide such a service for paper? But even within corporations, not everything goes to a service like Iron Mountain, only paper that is legally required to be preserved.
A society that doesn't preserve its history is a society that loses its culture over time.
The context was regulatory requirements for companies. I mean that as a business you pay someone to take care of your legal document preservation duties, and in case data gets lost, they will be liable for the financial damage this incurs to you. Outsourcing of risk against money.
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Also, getting insurance to pay for cybercrimes is hard and sometimes doesn't justify their costs.