Comment by co_king_5
3 days ago
You have to understand that the people who want mass incarceration/neo slavery are never going to want to stop locking people up.
Of course he thinks the incarceration rate is too low; people who express this opinion are at some level a justification for incarceration rates continuing to rise.
If there is no real penalty for being a career criminal, people will continue to be career criminals.
If someone knows they can rob people and get away with it, why would they do honest work for a living?
What is your solution to prevent crime without incarceration as a possible outcome for people breaking the law… especially those who do it repeatedly? It’s easy to talk down to solutions being used today, but without offering up a realistic alternative, this provides no value.
> If there is no real penalty for being a career criminal, people will continue to be career criminals.
I know this is a wild idea, but what if they had better options than career criminal for a living?
Americans are so invested in the penalties they can’t imagine the incentives approach.
I asked for a realistic alternative solution and you offered none, just more criticisms for the status quo.
There are already incentives for honest work… a paycheck, benefits, etc. Not to mention being a net positive to society. There is also the option to start a business, which has unlimited upside.
Some people put a lot of effort into breaking the law and making life worse for other people. If that effort was directed in a positive direction, they could be successful, without being a criminal.
This also goes for the white collar criminals that get a pass while running large companies or governments. If those efforts were directed in a better direction, life would also get better for everyone.
I wish there was as much sympathy for the victims as the criminals.
> Americans are so invested in the penalties they can’t imagine the incentives approach.
It's not Americans generally speaking, it's a vocal minority of white supremacist fascists.
The average drug dealer makes less than minimum wage. People commit crimes because they enjoy doing it, not because they need to. We know this because we have survey data on convicted criminals.
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This may be hard to accept - but there are some people who can’t help themselves. They are career criminals and even when presented with honest work they still choose to commit crimes. There exist sociopaths who don’t feel empathy or remorse, and are driven by their own desires and needs regardless of the cost to other people and society. They cannot be rehabilitated. They need to be locked in a cage forever. Society has known about these people since civilization began
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Those people are getting locked up more in the US than in any other country. Yet the crimes rates are not lower. In fact they're higher
> If there is no real penalty for being a career criminal
When did I say there should be no penalty for crime? When did I say there should be no penalty for a career of crime?
> What is your solution to prevent crime without incarceration
When did I say we should eliminate incarceration?
You're putting words in my mouth. You're creating a strawman.
What does crime mean to you?
What does crime look like?
What sorts of people commit crimes? Why do they commit crimes? What crimes do they commit?
You said incarceration is “neo slavery”. The base assumption is slavery is wrong.
So what should the penalty be?
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Why would you want someone who commits a violent crime to avoid prison?
Most offenders in the U.S. prison system that U.S. citizens tax dollars are paying for are not violent offenders, at least not until they've been in and out of the prison system at least once, then their chances of committing additional crimes sky rocket.
So to answer your sneakily worded question (throwing in the word violent like some kind of gotcha for the first time): I personally don't want more people in prison because I think it is wasteful both in terms of capital and in terms of human experience, there are proven better alternatives like rehabilitation that work for most people and have significantly better outcomes, and finally because the united states prison system is effectively captured by corporate interests which is antithetical to a society that should be against cruel punishments.
Sure but as long as we are on the same page about aggressively pursuing and incarcerating violent criminals
Why is your focus so narrow on ensuring people get punished for crimes rather than ensuring there is no crime? We have the highest incarceration rate in the world. Increasing that isn't going to turn us into Iceland.
Incarceration isn't for punishment. It's not for justice. It's not for rehabilitation. It's too protect society from the evil doer.
Did I say that someone who commits a violent crime should avoid prison?
Why are you putting words in my mouth?
In my opinion the problem is extreme sentences for non-violent crimes and a society that encourages recidivism by excluding the possibility for felons to re-enter society.
I’m glad you agree we need to aggressively prosecute violent crime, which is something that is not aggressively pursued in my large blue American city
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