Comment by lacoolj
17 hours ago
Contrary to a lot of comments here, the only way to use bitcoin (or any cryptocurrency) without tracking is to mine it yourself, and even then...
Where did you get it? Purchased/transferred? Where did they get it? What else did the person with that wallet do?
If the answer is "mined", even then, you have to actually do something with it, right? Buy something? Where is that something shipped? At worst you'll have to pay customs on it, and have it actually get through customs. At best, your address is in a database now.
Have it shipped somewhere obscure? Video cameras are everywhere. Have it shipped to someone else's house and steal it off their porch? Again, cameras everywhere.
Not have a physical item? Just a service? That's pretty much the closest you'll get to anonymous money transfer and full usage (along with whatever VPN you prefer).
Cool that was a fun mental exercise. Now everyone tell me why I'm wrong!
It's great for transactions where moving a large amount of money would be impossible due to KYC laws and smuggling the cash even more so. As long as you can find someone willing to sell you bitcoin and someone else willing to accept it, you're still in business.
It shipped to a forest, buried and gps location is given. Pretty old scheme when buyer and seller don’t want to meet
fund my art project and my sculpture will prove you wrong.
I mean, I can meet you in an ally, transfer some satoshis from my wallet to yours, you hand me a wad of cash/jewels/MtG/collector funkos and you might not even know my name.
Hmm, doesn't this work equally well with a wad of $10 and $20 notes? I mean, yes, notes could be clandestinely marked. But aren't bitcoins also traceable after the first transaction?
yes but harder to move 10M in cash around from country to country.
I'm assuming I'm purchasing/selling a lot of MtG/Funko here in this example.
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But do people actually do this? How would you find someone to give you bitcoin for your gold? Are there online markets? Honest Q
Yeah, people do.
Bisq is one place, there's more.
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How do you avoid them just putting a bullet in you and just taking your cash without the Bitcoin though? It doesn't seem like a great option.
The same way you avoid it doing anything else illegal that involves cash.
Crime is risky, but not pure anarchy. It is still based on trust and rules, just not those written in the law.
There are plenty of regular people who interact with criminals, for example drug dealers, without getting murdered or robbed of all the cash they are carrying.
In Argentina, years ago, you could exchange dollars/euros for pesos on the street and get a far better exchange rate than in a bank. It was obviously aimed at tourists, who didn't get robbed, or the whole enterprise would stop.
Sounds like a setup to get robbed tbqh.
True, but this does not happen for large transactions, due to being vulnerable to the $5 wrench attack (1)
For big transactions where something of actual value is exchanged, both parties will want an escrow, and this is where a public exchange comes in.
1 - https://xkcd.com/538/
Except that there is a huge trusted network for this. The world does not revolve around americas and europe. Not everyone has issues cashing out millions of crypto from a bank. This has been especially prevelant with countries that host a lot of Russian immigrants ever since the SWIFT ban, the regulation is extremely lax and there is minimal data shared to western institutions.
I have heard from friends who are in these countries observing transactions that go into the millions of dollars that are being cashed out (not even laundered) like it's just another day. Nobody asks questions, nobody cares either and if you bring it up you will likely lose your job in few months or so.
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Yeah, crypto as normally managed is one of the most traceable currencies. The block chain is in fact a complete log of transactions. Naturally that means there are no untraceable uses despite your sound-of-one-hand-clapping thought experiment.