Comment by miroljub
2 days ago
GrapheneOS works only with Pixel devices, which doesn't make it much useful for the vast majority of Android users.
2 days ago
GrapheneOS works only with Pixel devices, which doesn't make it much useful for the vast majority of Android users.
Indeed. Sadly the reality is that most other Android devices are simply not secure enough. Many Android phones do not have a separate secure enclave (outside Pixel and IISC Samsung flagship and A5x range), so they are vulnerable to breaking PIN-based unlocking, side channel attacks, etc. Besides that they often only provide old vendor kernel trees, old firmware blobs, etc.
So, you have to wonder whether you want such a phone anyway if you care about security and privacy. If you don't care about security anyway, you could as well run /e/OS, etc.
Above-mentioned Samsung phones could perhaps make the cut, but don't support unlocking anymore (and when they still did, would blow a Knox eFuse).
Reduced security has always annoyed me a bit as an argument. Sort of in the same way as signal deprecating SMS because it's insecure.
I get all or nothing when your threat model is state actors. However, for most people, the benefit is just freedom from corporate agendas.
Not everyone needs kernel hardening, or always E2EE (as with signal). Personally I just like the features it provides (e.g. scoped storage, disabling any app including Google play services, profiles etc etc
Its also an easier sell to people who are apathetic to security when the product is just better and more secure, the same way apple does (for whatever their reasons may be).
All that said, I get they're limited in funds and manpower, plus the things mentioned at the end there, so I can only be so peeved they chose a target and stuck with it. They typically cite security as the reason, not those other ones, however.
Oh man, I am still annoyed about Signal removing SMS support. Had to add another app to my phone and I can now no longer accidentally discover that someone I'm texting has Signal, which happened more than once to me!
1 reply →
Reduced security has always annoyed me a bit as an argument.
Security is one of one of the main selling points of GrapheneOS, I can fully understand that they don't want to weaken that by supporting fundamentally insecure devices.
I think a nice side-effect is that they only focus on a small number of devices (Pixels) and support those really well. I have followed the /e/OS forums for a while and many devices have constant regressions because it is hard to validate each release on tens of devices.
I get all or nothing when your threat model is state actors.
People do have different thread models, though I think up-to-date software should be the baseline for everyone and where pretty much every phone outside iPhone, Google Pixel, and a subset of Samsung phones fail. Also, I think having a secure enclave should be the baseline, since phones do get stolen.
Its also an easier sell to people who are apathetic to security when the product is just better and more secure, the same way apple does
That's really a weird example though for supporting the argument that GrapheneOS should support more devices. Isn't Pixel + GrapheneOS then pretty much iPhone + iOS? Privacy-respecting, secure, not pushing AI subscriptions all the time (though iOS is getting worse in that respect), offering useful functionality?
At any rate, I understand if you have another phone, you wouldn't buy a Pixel for GrapheneOS, but it does make sense to buy your next phone for running GrapheneOS. Pixel covers a pretty wide price range to, e.g. the Pixel 9a was 349 Euro here recently, all the way up to the Pixel fold.
1 reply →
> I get all or nothing when your threat model is state actors.
The problem for those of us in the USA, that labels anyone who disagrees with the current administration and ICE as a domestic terrorist, means that now everyone's threat model is a state actor.
The threat model of every citizen that dares to exercise their first amendment rights now escalated beyond corporate agendas to "How do I make sure Israeli & Palantir spyware doesn't end up on my phone? How do I make sure if my phone does get confiscated, Cellebrite can't image it or access the data?"
Even if that weren't the case, I see no valid reason to be lax with security in 2026. There's no excuse anymore, I mean we still have OEMs selling phones that they do not issue security updates for after purchase. That's just gross negligence.
1 reply →
Graphene is OSS, so if you want to create a fork that supports other phones, you are free to do so. The maintainers have limited amount of resources, why wouldn't they focus those resources on the most secure hardware if that is what aligns with their goals? If you have different goals, create or fund a fork to support more hardware.
1 reply →
>Not everyone needs kernel hardening, or always E2EE (as with signal).
If application processors and hardware crypto accelerators are good enough to make this invisible to the end user, then why not? Why not have everyone be on hardened kernels by default and let them opt-in to insecure ones instead of the other way around?
Perfect really is the enemy of good when it comes to GrapheneOS
It really isn't; the project acknowledges numerous existing compromises. Take a look at their roadmap or any number of threads if you think they only ever implement perfect features.
That's also an unfair take when one considers how many improvements they've upstreamed to AOSP and how many quality of life features they've implemented.
When feasible, they also provide harm reduction updates for legacy hardware.
> Sadly the reality is that most other Android devices are simply not secure enough.
This seems like a bad reason for not supporting a device. If the device doesn't have a hardware feature then the OS it came with can't be doing it either, and then all you're doing is leaving the user with all of the other security problems in the OEM OS that otherwise could have been improved by replacing it.
The point of GrapheneOS isn't improving a generic device's security, it's about setting an example for a highly private and secure OS. It's a FOSS project, so nothing stops a committed individual or community from using other device targets, but the main project chooses specifically to use their smaller resources to pursue excellence rather than mediocrity.
2 replies →
Every GrapheneOS proponent I've seen has claimed that other devices are inferior to Pixel security wise, and that's why they're not supported. That always sounded a bit odd to me and certainly seems to have a bit more nuance based on your comment. Thank you for adding some clarity here.
See their list of device requirements: https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices
There's really nothing odd that company that runs Project Zero also builds devices that are well secured.
10 replies →
Imagine if the Linux project had this same mentality. Thank goodness they don't.
Imagine if Apple had this same mentality, they would never be where they are.
(/s in case it is needed.)
As a smaller project, choosing a small set of hardware and supporting it really well (aside from security reasons) seems like a much better strategy than supporting tens of devices badly (go to e.g. the /e/OS forums to see what regressions people are dealing with after monthly updates).
3 replies →
Which leads to things like laptop sleep working inconsistently. Instead of having a good reputation, Linux's reputation gets hurt by all the random devices it allegedly supports.
2 replies →
GrapheneOS is working with a manufacturer to change this:[0]
> We're working with a major OEM and the devices will be the future versions of existing models they have now. The devices will be priced similarly to Pixels. The initial devices will have a flagship Snapdragon SoC for the best security and support time. Snapdragon flagships have significantly better CPU and GPU performance than Pixels. Snapdragon provides high quality Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, GNSS and cellular support as part of the SoC. eSIM and other functionality is also provided by the SoC. Snapdragon has decent image processing functionality included too, and good neural network acceleration.
[0]: https://old.reddit.com/r/GrapheneOS/comments/1o32gpg/deleted...
That "major OEM" seems to be Motorola, i.e. Lenovo.
I hope HMD reach out next: https://www.hmdsecure.com/
1 reply →
Huge opportunity for Lenovo/Motorola here who have been the quiet Linux favorite for a while but we shall see if they even bother.
Sounds like a consumer problem for their own choices of vendor lock in