Comment by mg
9 hours ago
The one thing that interests me most when it comes to laptops these days is weight. So I jumped right into the tech specs section and looked it up. Since this is the "Air" laptop of the company that is popular for thin and lightweight devices, my hopes were high.
But ...
The 13 inch version is heavier than a ThinkPad X1 Carbon. Which has a 14 inch screen and can run Linux.
I bought a ThinkPad X1. Had to send it back for repairs three times in the first year, including a complete motherboard replacement, and it died again immediately after the warranty expired. Been a $2800 door stop since then. The case is flimsy plastic that gets beat to crap easily. The trackpad is over-sensitive in all the wrong ways which makes it hard to use as an actual laptop. Plus it's weaker and slower than an Air. Also unbearably loud and unbearably hot.
I don't like Apple as a company and I don't particularly like MacOS, but no one except Apple makes a laptop worth a damn.
Was it a Gen 1 device? I bought a Thinkpad X13 Gen 1 many years ago and it kept having blue screens from RAM errors and other problems. Eventually after many warranty attempts and motherboard replacements they sent me a new X13 Gen 4. This has been running Ubuntu with no problems for 4 years now, it might be more a "lemons" phenomenon than a general rule. Also, AFAIK, the case is metal with a "soft-touch" coating.
The Apple ARM processors are still in a league of their own but personally I'm not willing to give up my OS freedom of choice for that advantage.
Since when do we use crowdsourced anecdotes to represent product quality?
Not my experience in the slightest, after two decades of personal thinkpads and around 20 issued to my team.
Also if you'd just spent that extra 120 bucks for the 3 year onsite warranty, you'd have a lenovo technician replacing your motherboard at a location of your choice the next working day.
I have an X1 Carbon 2023. It's pretty solid, the only complaint I have is once the CPU usage is over 10% the fan starts running full blast.
I also bought a ThinkPad X1 back in 2015. Used it for 9 years with no issues at all. I installed Linux on it last year and still use it.
why did you create a throwaway account for this
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The Air is going to run laps around the X1, in literally every benchmark you can come up with besides "its not open source". I have that same processor in a much bulkier thinkpad and it thermal throttles instantly doing basic office multi-tasking, with the fan running constantly.
Also its made out of metal.
The X1 Carbon is getting updated to Panther Lake, and Panther Lake is getting competitive with the M5.
> in literally every benchmark you can come up
Nope, Panther Lake will win most gaming benchmarks. The M5 will win most others but not by "running laps around" levels.
At what power envelope? Intel chips can compete with M series chips, but usually at way higher power, which means fans running like a jet engine.
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Thinkpads have track points, macs don't.
That benchmark is really important to me due to RSI. Track points save me a buttload of hand pain.
interesting, I had to stop using my trackpoint because it was giving me rsi in my index finger. the track pad hasn't given me any issues.
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Ever since the T450 the trackpoint has been awful.
Can't replace the nob anymore either, as the convex knob was arguably the best
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What basic office tasks are that?
The last time I was excited about the performance of local computers was in the 90s I think.
Modern laptops are so insanely fast. Not sure if they are 2x, 10x or 100x faster than I need them to be. But I never hear fans. I never have to wait for the machine these days.
Have you used a MacBook as a daily driver since the M chips came out?
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It has always been like this. Apple's signature for their laptops is their aluminium body and people seem to like it.
I like the aluminum body a lot. I'm not particularly clumsy, but each of my macbooks ends up with some fall damage at some point over the 5+ years that I have it.
When I used to be assigned a plastic Dell work laptop, I dropped one onto the carpeted floor of my office because I thought it was going into my padded sleeve of backpack and that cracked the case, and broke the screen. I've accidentally yoinked my MBA (last intel one they made) off my desk, and while it dented the body of it, nothing broke. That is now my drum computer, and it gets regularly pelted with drumsticks when my grip tires.
Unfortunately dropping your laptop once in 5 years actually does make you too clumsy for a plastic laptop.
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My father recently dropped my macbook air from the car essentially on concrete bricks.
It has just gotten a single dent for something less than 0.5 cm and its on the side (although this damage was done when the laptop was closed so some damage is just above the laptop's display aluminium shell.
To be honest, its barely visible and everything is working and there was no damage on display or anything else for what its worth.
I usually don't like apple but damn the macbook air is tiny and can take some damage.
Although I am still just a little sad about the damage because the laptop was perfect condition beforehand now that we talked about it but its incredibly better than any other laptop atleast with that thing in mind. Gonna use this laptop for a long time (M1 Air)
It's essential for thermals. Without the unibody, it would throttle sooner and you'd lose performance.
The aluminium chassis cannot be used for heat dissipation without risk of harming users. Which is why there is a "macbook air peformance mod" to add thermal-interface-material (instead of thermal insulation) to turn the chassis into a heatsink.
It's not a heatsink by default.
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Air has no thermal connection to the chassis for the purpose of making it safe to have in contact with skin.
People have been modding theirs to make this contact, though. And been getting a significant performance boost out of it.
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The original Air lineup was thinner in the front and seemed a little lighter. The thicker front on newer airs gives more battery life, but I'm not a fan of it.
The thinness at the front was a bit of a hack though wasn’t it? So Steve Jobs could make it look good in photographs. I’d take the extra battery life any day.
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I'm in the same boat. I have one of the original M1 MacBook airs, and the thicker front feels like overall a downgrade in hardware. Going up to higher ram amounts might be good for some of my datasets, but it's not needed for any software I run.
So I guess I'll wait for the next cycle and hope they return to the "Air" idea again.
I like the touchpad. Is there any competitor which is as good and exact? I noticed in Linux, it's not as exact.
Thinkpad touchpads are mediocre at best. Dell’s are a little worse than that IMHO.
I don’t understand why other laptop manufacturers don’t copy the Apple trackpad.
I have Lenovo laptop with quite mediocre touchpad. I got used to use gestures instead of clicking and it works great for me.
> The 13 inch version is heavier than a ThinkPad X1 Carbon
And costs ~800 more for 16Gb/512 with a slower CPU and worse battery life.
As someone who spends his life on the road with a laptop, I strongly feel that anything that works for you under 3lbs is the sweet spot. The difference between 2.2 and 2.7lbs is miniscule in the grand scheme of my backpack.
If anybody else wondered about figures:
13.6 inch 2560x1664 screen, 1.23kg (13" Mac)
14.0 inch 1920x1200 screen, 0.98kg (14" Thinkpad)
It comes with a 2880 x 1800 OLED
As long as your wallet “comes with” an extra $2000 over the MBA.
(EDIT: ninja’d, I see.)
The $3000 version does. The air is $1000
But then you'd have to have a plasticky thinkpad with half the screen resolution...
It comes with a 2880 x 1800 120Hz OLED
https://www.lenovo.com/gb/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadx1/t...
For an RRP of £3,259.99?
Compare that to the base 512GB, 16GB memory macbook air @ £1099.
The next comparable X1 Carbon I can find is: https://www.lenovo.com/gb/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadx1/t...
RRP: £1,900.00 with this crappy display: 14" WUXGA (1920 x 1200), IPS, Anti-Glare, Non-Touch, 100%sRGB, 400 nits, 60 Hz
[flagged]
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47235141
I really like my X1 Carbon gen 7, aside from the bizarre Ethernet "port" (it has built-in Ethernet, but they didn't have room for RJ45, so instead of just telling you to buy a USB one it's on a dongle that blocks one of its two USB-C ports when plugged in, eliminating the advantage of "doesn't use a USB port"). But aside from fantastic Linux support, it's got little to recommend it over a similar-vintage MBA, which has a much better look and feel.
Carbon fiber vs aluminum.
Same here. If the rumored A18 Pro MacBook stays under 1kg, it would be very compelling.
Regarding lightweight laptops, the Fujitsu FMV Note U series (14-inch) weighs only 634g-917g with Arrow Lake 255H and a replaceable battery.
i run fedora and arch on my m2 air, via the UTM app which wraps Apple Silicon hypervisor, and it's _fantastic_.
Is Linux normally heavier?
I'm in the same boat and finding it disappointing.
For people saying this machine is so much faster, I don't care. My situation isn't the norm, but we're on HN. I have a powerful desktop that's my main compute machine and my laptop is a terminal. I need a web browser, whatever corporate shovelware I need, and a ssh connection (and tailscale). If I wanted to do real work locally I wouldn't be getting an Air.
While realizing I'm not the typical user, it's not like the typical Air user needs much compute anyways. The general public just uses web browsers.
Though one thing I'd love is if they could add just a little distance between the keyboard and screen so my screen doesn't get so dirty constantly... doesn't anyone use lotion at Apple?
There are a ton of rumors a much cheaper MBA is about to be announced.
What I actually like about Apple products is the heft. They feel premium and the heaviness contributes a lot to the premium feel.
I tried a ThinkPad X1 Carbon as well, it felt like a toy.
I'm not sure you want heaviness in a laptop?