Comment by dzaima
2 months ago
> How is that different for RISC-V?
RISC-V hardware with slow misaligned mem ops does exist to non-insignificant extent, and it seems not enough people have laughed at them, and instead compilers did just surrender and default to not using them.
> As you observed there's a feedback loop between what compilers output and what gets optimised in hardware.
Well, that loop needs to start somewhere, and it has already started, and started wrong. I suppose we'll see what happens with real RVA23 hardware; at the very least, even if it takes a decade for most hardware to support misaligned well, software could retroactively change its defaults while still remaining technically-RVA23-compatible, so I suppose that's good.
> RISC-V hardware with slow misaligned mem ops does exist to non-insignificant extent
Only U74 and P550, old RV64GC CPUs.
SiFive's RVA23 cores have fast misaligned accesses, as do all THead and SpacemiT cores.
I can't imagine that all the Tenstorrent and Ventana and so forth people doing massively OoO 8-wide cores won't also have fast misaligned accesses.
As a previous poster said: if you're targeting RVA23 then just assume misaligned is fast and if someone one day makes one that isn't then sucks to be them.
P550 is, like, what, only a year old? I suppose there has been some laughing at it at least.
Also Kendryte K230 / C908, but only on vector mem ops, which adds a whole another mess onto this.
I'd hope all the massive OoO will have fast misaligned mem ops, anything else would immediately cause infinite pain for decades.
But of course there'll be plenty of RVA23 hardware that's much smaller eventually too, once it becomes a general expectation instead of "cool thing for the very-top-end to have".
I do agree that it'd be reasonable to just assume fast misaligned ops, but for whatever reason gcc and clang just don't, and that's what we have for defaults.
> P550 is, like, what, only a year old?
No, it was released to customers in June 2021, almost five years ago.
https://www.sifive.com/press/sifive-performance-p550-core-se...
It has take a while for this core to appear in an SoC suitable for SBCs, as Intel was originally announced as doing that and got as far as showing a working SoC/Board at the Intel Innovation 2022 event in September 2022.
Someone who attended that event was able to download the source code for my primes benchmark and compile and run it, at the show, and was kind enough to send me the results. They were fine.
For reasons known only to Intel, they subsequently cancelled mass production of the chip.
ESWIN stepped up and made the EIC7700X, as used in the Milk-V Megrez and SiFive HiFive Premier P550, which did indeed ship just over a year ago.
But technically we could have had boards with the Intel chip three years ago.
Heck we should have had the far better/faster Milk-V Oasis with the P670 core (and 16 of them!) two years ago. Again, that was business/politics that prevented it, not technology.
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> I do agree that it'd be reasonable to just assume fast misaligned ops, but for whatever reason gcc and clang just don't, and that's what we have for defaults.
This very much has a "for now" on it. Once there is actually widespread hardware with the feature, I would be very surprised if the compilers don't update their heuristics (at least for RVA23 chips)
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