If you don’t mind developing, what made you switch stance ? many people never change their minds even when faced with overwhelming evidence , and based on your prior level of support, I’m quite curious about the actual process .
Hard to tell in retrospect. I think the thick layer of distrust against palestinians (which was built by debunked lie after lie from Hamas etc over the years) was finally breached by the sheer asimmetry of power that Israeli forces have gained against Palestinian civilians.
Just forget that the two parties are Jews and Arabs and instead make them Suaheli and Kazakh, and then put one group in such an "agency-less" position as Palestinians are, and give the other group the leverage in power as the Israelis have, plus the grievances. Even if you can understand these grievances – there is just no way these things aren't going to happen.
Plus: The state of Gaza has reached a level of destruction that is just ... well basically as if they have nuked the place (Like I initally favoured). At some point the humane thing would be to call it a win and leave. An that point has probably passed a long time ago.
Plus, I have read about the background of some of Netanjahu's cabinet members and they essentially tick all the boxes of what I find problematic with the aforementioned power asimmetry:
Prior aggresive behaviour against Palestinian civlians in the settlement areas, with the victims having no proper way of legal recourse. Like ganging up on random Arabs there and beating them up. I know there is backlash for this from within Israeli society but man, things are bad if a literal street thug is getting a place in the cabinet, because he behaved that way.
Lets just say many Gazans didn't display any empathy for dead or almost dead civilians either that they dragged into the city and instead were filming themselves celebrating over corpses, and captured women bleeding from their r_pings as well as from the achilles-heel cuts applied. A technique highlighting how deep enslavement-culture run in this part of the world.
You're projecting, judging, trying, and executing every single person of a people. A people are not a hivemind. Treating people as such makes you a monochromatic, ignorant bigot of the worst sort.
Nuking Gaza is an abhorrent position but I don't think there will be any reform out there until there is a decisive win and if I have to pick a side it's not the Palestinians. If the Palestinians win it'll embolden other states or factions to have another go at the six-day war again and possibly prop up break-away action against other factions' host countries. There needs to be a complete and utter defeat that results in an enlightenment process. The strategy and military approach Hamas uses for example cannot be seen to win.
You have to look at the bigger picture. If they lose it's going to be a problem for all of us. Thus I have to support them.
And no I'm not a Trump supporter or Jewish or Israeli. The current operation in Iran is a fuck up. The whole thing that lead to 10-7 was a fuck up. It should have been dealt with years ago, preferably through diplomacy and threat of a strong hand rather than actually having to bomb the place.
There's no righteous side at all in this conflict.
Same thought in reverse. If oppressive regimes see that intentionally backing a population into a corner ultimately lets them get away with genocide on the global stage then presumably more of them will attempt it in the future.
That's literally the strategy of the Likud, who undermined the more moderate Fattah to allow the extremist Hamas to reign on the Gaza strip, hoping that one day the 7th of october would happen, and would let them unleash a genocide...
> It’s very natural to want to return the same in kind
They didn't return the same in kind. Compare the "stats" of Oct 7 vs what Israel did over the next 2 years.
If you think that what happened on Oct 7 justified such a response, then you should shudder at the thought of what is justified in a merely proportional response to Israel's response. Proportionality being the foundation of justice and all that.
exactly. wanting to nuke the place is an absolute normal response to what the Palestininans did on 7 Oct. They livestreamed their joy of r_pe, enslavement and gruesome killings. Even the nazis, to which the Oct-7-abaters are never tired of comparing the Israelis to, had the decency to not openly advertise their atrocities.
If you don’t mind developing, what made you switch stance ? many people never change their minds even when faced with overwhelming evidence , and based on your prior level of support, I’m quite curious about the actual process .
Hard to tell in retrospect. I think the thick layer of distrust against palestinians (which was built by debunked lie after lie from Hamas etc over the years) was finally breached by the sheer asimmetry of power that Israeli forces have gained against Palestinian civilians.
Just forget that the two parties are Jews and Arabs and instead make them Suaheli and Kazakh, and then put one group in such an "agency-less" position as Palestinians are, and give the other group the leverage in power as the Israelis have, plus the grievances. Even if you can understand these grievances – there is just no way these things aren't going to happen.
Plus: The state of Gaza has reached a level of destruction that is just ... well basically as if they have nuked the place (Like I initally favoured). At some point the humane thing would be to call it a win and leave. An that point has probably passed a long time ago.
Plus, I have read about the background of some of Netanjahu's cabinet members and they essentially tick all the boxes of what I find problematic with the aforementioned power asimmetry:
Prior aggresive behaviour against Palestinian civlians in the settlement areas, with the victims having no proper way of legal recourse. Like ganging up on random Arabs there and beating them up. I know there is backlash for this from within Israeli society but man, things are bad if a literal street thug is getting a place in the cabinet, because he behaved that way.
> many people never change their minds even when faced with overwhelming evidence
Not the OP, but many people do. I've changed my stance on similar topics multiple times in the past, based on new (to me, at least) evidence.
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> nuke Gaza for good
Some great empathy for innocent civilians you got there, monster.
Lets just say many Gazans didn't display any empathy for dead or almost dead civilians either that they dragged into the city and instead were filming themselves celebrating over corpses, and captured women bleeding from their r_pings as well as from the achilles-heel cuts applied. A technique highlighting how deep enslavement-culture run in this part of the world.
You're projecting, judging, trying, and executing every single person of a people. A people are not a hivemind. Treating people as such makes you a monochromatic, ignorant bigot of the worst sort.
Nuking Gaza is an abhorrent position but I don't think there will be any reform out there until there is a decisive win and if I have to pick a side it's not the Palestinians. If the Palestinians win it'll embolden other states or factions to have another go at the six-day war again and possibly prop up break-away action against other factions' host countries. There needs to be a complete and utter defeat that results in an enlightenment process. The strategy and military approach Hamas uses for example cannot be seen to win.
You have to look at the bigger picture. If they lose it's going to be a problem for all of us. Thus I have to support them.
And no I'm not a Trump supporter or Jewish or Israeli. The current operation in Iran is a fuck up. The whole thing that lead to 10-7 was a fuck up. It should have been dealt with years ago, preferably through diplomacy and threat of a strong hand rather than actually having to bomb the place.
There's no righteous side at all in this conflict.
Same thought in reverse. If oppressive regimes see that intentionally backing a population into a corner ultimately lets them get away with genocide on the global stage then presumably more of them will attempt it in the future.
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> more conflict means more power for them
That's literally the strategy of the Likud, who undermined the more moderate Fattah to allow the extremist Hamas to reign on the Gaza strip, hoping that one day the 7th of october would happen, and would let them unleash a genocide...
https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/netanyahu-money-...
> My gut reaction to 10-7 was to nuke Gaza for good
What the actual fuck. Sorry, but you’re a fucking maniac.
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> It’s very natural to want to return the same in kind
They didn't return the same in kind. Compare the "stats" of Oct 7 vs what Israel did over the next 2 years.
If you think that what happened on Oct 7 justified such a response, then you should shudder at the thought of what is justified in a merely proportional response to Israel's response. Proportionality being the foundation of justice and all that.
5 replies →
> return the same in kind
https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/689306/jewish...
exactly. wanting to nuke the place is an absolute normal response to what the Palestininans did on 7 Oct. They livestreamed their joy of r_pe, enslavement and gruesome killings. Even the nazis, to which the Oct-7-abaters are never tired of comparing the Israelis to, had the decency to not openly advertise their atrocities.
Murder is bad. Still, killing 200 people is not equivalent to killing 2 million people.
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