Must have missed that meeting. ORMs are not for everything, but for CRUD-heavy apps with validation they save a lot of boilerplate. And there's always execute_raw() for when you need to go off-script.
If there's an Open Source application that you can show me as a good example of ORM usage, I'd be interested in seeing it as a steelman argument for them.
For Oxyde specifically, it's still a young project, so the best public examples I have are the FastAPI tutorial (https://github.com/mr-fatalyst/fastapi-oxyde-example) and the admin panel examples (https://github.com/mr-fatalyst/oxyde-admin). Bigger real-world showcases will come with time. But in general, ORMs pay for themselves when you have lots of models, relations, and standard CRUD with validation. The moment you hand-write the same INSERT/UPDATE/SELECT with joins for every endpoint, it adds up fast.
Where ORMs are clearly weak is in generating suboptimal queries and making it too easy to create N+1 issues. My first introduction to ORMs was Ruby on Rails. You would rely on New Relic to identify performance issues and then fix them.
With solid AGENTS.md / CLAUDE.md, I do not think this would happen as much anymore in new code. So then it is just a matter of style preference (ORM vs whatever else).
Must have missed that meeting. ORMs are not for everything, but for CRUD-heavy apps with validation they save a lot of boilerplate. And there's always execute_raw() for when you need to go off-script.
If there's an Open Source application that you can show me as a good example of ORM usage, I'd be interested in seeing it as a steelman argument for them.
Here's OpenEdx extensively using ORM: https://github.com/openedx/openedx-platform
For Oxyde specifically, it's still a young project, so the best public examples I have are the FastAPI tutorial (https://github.com/mr-fatalyst/fastapi-oxyde-example) and the admin panel examples (https://github.com/mr-fatalyst/oxyde-admin). Bigger real-world showcases will come with time. But in general, ORMs pay for themselves when you have lots of models, relations, and standard CRUD with validation. The moment you hand-write the same INSERT/UPDATE/SELECT with joins for every endpoint, it adds up fast.
[dead]
Where ORMs are clearly weak is in generating suboptimal queries and making it too easy to create N+1 issues. My first introduction to ORMs was Ruby on Rails. You would rely on New Relic to identify performance issues and then fix them.
With solid AGENTS.md / CLAUDE.md, I do not think this would happen as much anymore in new code. So then it is just a matter of style preference (ORM vs whatever else).
Micro-orms (mapping to parameters and from columns) are generally fine last i read. It is the general aversion to writing a SELECT that is suspect.