Comment by ElectricalUnion
7 hours ago
I also find it really strange this weird ORM fascination. Besides the generic "ORM are the Vietnam War of CS" feeling, I feel that with average database to ORM/REST things, end up with at least one of:
a) you somehow actually have a "system of record", so modelling something in a very CRUD way makes sense, but, on the other hand, who the hell ends up building so many system of record systems in the first place to need those kinds of tools and frameworks?
b) you pretend your system is somehow a system of record when it isn't and modelling everything as CRUD makes it a uniform ball of mud. I don't understand what is so important that you can uniformly "CRUD" a bunch of objects? The three most important parts of an API, making it easy to use it right, hard to use it wrong, and easy to figure out the intent behind how your system is meant to be used, are lost that way.
c) you leak your API to your database, or your database to your API, compromising both, so both sucks.
The vietnam of computer science was written 20 years ago (2006 even), and didn't kill off ORMs then. We've only had 20 years of improvement of ORMs since then. We've long ago accepted Vietnam (the country) as what it is and what it will be in the forseeable future. We should do the same with ORM.
I for one don't want to write in a low level assembly language, and shouldn't have to in 2026. Yet, SQL still feels like one.
I've written a lot of one off products using an ORM, and I don't regret any of the time savings from doing so. When and if I make $5-50M a year on a shipped product, okay, maybe I'll think about optimizing. And then I'll hire an expert while I galavant around europe.
SQL is a pretty high-level, declarative language. It's unnecessarily wordy though, and not very composable.
The problem with ORMs is that they usually give you a wrong abstraction. They map poorly on how a relational database works, and what it is capable of. But the cost of it is usually poor performance, rarely it's obvious bugs. So it's really easy to get started to use; when it starts costing you, you can optimize the few most critical paths, and just pay more and more for the DB. This looks like an okay deal for the industry, it seems.