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Comment by jauntywundrkind

3 hours ago

I've had such the opposite experience, but mainly doing agentic coding & little chat.

Codex is an ice man. Every other model will have a thinking output that is meaningful and significant, that is walking through its assumptions. Codex outputs only a very basic idea of what it's thinking about, doesn't verbalize the problem or it's constraints at all.

Codex also is by far the most sycophantic model. I am a capable coder, have my charms, but every single direction change I suggest, codex is all: "that's a great idea, and we should totally go that [very different] direction", try as I might to get it to act like more of a peer.

Opus I think does a better job of working with me to figure out what to build, and understanding the problem more. But I find it still has a propensity for making somewhat weird suggestions. I can watch it talk itself into some weird ideas. Which at least I can stop and alter! But I find its less reliable at kicking out good technical work.

Codex is plenty fast in ChatGPT+. Speed is not the issue. I'm also used to GLM speeds. Having parallel work open, keeping an eye on multiple terminals is just a fact of life now; work needs to optimize itself (organizationally) for parallel workflows if it wants agentic productivity from us.

I have enormous respect for Codex, and think it (by signficiant measure) has the best ability to code. In some ways I think maybe some of the reason it's so good is because it's not trying to convey complex dimensional exploration into a understandable human thought sequence. But I resent how you just have to let it work, before you have a chance to talk with it and intervene. Even when discussing it is extremely extremely terse, and I find I have to ask it again and again and again to expand.

The one caveat i'll add, I've been dabbling elsewhere but mainly i use OpenCode and it's prompt is pretty extensive and may me part of why codex feels like an ice man to me. https://github.com/anomalyco/opencode/blob/dev/packages/open...

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jauntywundrkind

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pscanf  3 hours ago

> I've had such the opposite experience

Yeah, I've actually heard many other people swear by the GPTs / Codex. I wonder what factors make one "click" with a model and not with another.

> Codex is an ice man.

That might be because OpenAI hides the actual reasoning traces, showing just a summary (if I understood correctly).

  • kevinsync  1 hour ago

    OpenClaw guy (he's Austrian, it's relevant) much prefers Codex over Claude and articulated it as being due to Claude's output feeling very "American" and Codex's output feeling very "German", and I personally really agree with the sentiment.

    As an American, Claude feels much more natural to me, with the same overly-optimistic "move fast, break things" ethos that permeates our culture. It takes bigger swings (and misses) at harder-to-quantify concepts than Codex, cuts corners (not intentionally, but it feels like a human who's just moving too fast to see the forest for the trees in the moment), etc. Codex on the other hand feels more grounded, more prone to trying to aggregate blind spots, edge cases, and cover the request more thoroughly than Claude. It's far more pedantic and efficient, almost humorless. The dude also claimed that most of the Codex team is European while Claude team is American, and suggested that as an influence on why this might be.

    Anyways, I've found that if I force Claude and Codex to talk to each other, I can get way better results and consistency by using Claude to generate fairly good plans from my detailed requests that it passes to Codex for review and amendment, Claude incorporates the feedback and implements the code, then Codex reviews the commit and patches anything Claude misses. Best of both worlds. YMMV

    • pscanf  1 hour ago

      Oh, interesting perspective. I'm Italian, but from an Alpine valley not far from Austria, so I don't know what I should prefer. :D

      But joking aside, putting it like that I'd think I'd prefer the German/Codex way of doing things, yet I'm in camp Claude. But I've always worked better with teammates that balance my fastidiousness, so maybe that's my answer.