Comment by cheriot
2 days ago
I'm game for throwing rocks at Apple and Google, but I don't get this one.
> consumer apps embed ad SDKs → those SDKs feed location signals into RTB ad exchanges → surveillance-oriented firms sit in the RTB pipeline and harvest bid request data even without winning auctions
Would you ban ad supported apps? Assuming the comment you're responding to is realistic, I'm not sure how the OS is to blame.
Neither big players have refined enough permissions. These set users up for giving away more data than they think.
Maybe one clear example is needing a permission once for setup and then it remaining persistent.
An easy demonstration is just looking at what Graphene has done. It's open source and you wana say Google can't protect their users better? Certainly Graphene has some advanced features but not everything can be dismissed so easily. Besides, just throw advanced features behind a hidden menu (which they already have!). There's no reason you can't many most users happy while also catering to power users (they'll always complain, but that's their job)
https://grapheneos.org/features
> Would you ban ad supported apps?
There's no need to ban ad supported apps when you can just ban the practice of using ads targeting users based on individual characteristics.
You trust the adtech companies to pinky promise to totally not do that anymore?
how about jailing CEO's of companies who do this?
3 replies →
I would ban apps using unsafe ad platforms
If I was simultaneously also the owner of the ad platform, I'd fix it & knock out the bad players, or get ready to be sued for a decade+ of knowing malpractice
And if I was a US citizen seeing the companies being involved be sued for being monopolies and abusing their position, and then seeing them cry security in court yet knowingly do this for a decade+, I'd feel frustrated by successive left + right US administrations & voters
They are all unsafe. It’s a huge source of revenue for ad companies.
This is really simple to explain:
Apple does not let you restrict app network access[1]
You have no ability to know who your app is connecting to, and you cannot select or prevent it.
[1] except maybe the cellular data toggle
The only way Im aware of is if you do it thru Settings > Cellular and always use data for internet on your phone
Settings > Privacy & Security > App Privacy Report will at least show domains contacted by each app.
But you cannot block them.
You can trace the big players
If Google & Apple & friends refused to take a rake and opened distribution, then I'd agree, net neutrality etc, not their problem
But they own so much, and so deep into the pipeline, and explain their fees to courts because "security"... and then don't do investigations. They employ some of the best security analysts in the world and have $10-30B/yr revenue tied to just the app store fees, so they very much can take a big bite out of this if they wanted.
I'll never not be impressed by how many people will defend trillion dollar organizations and say that things are too expensive. Especially when open source projects (including forks!) implement such features.
I'm completely with you, they could do these things if they wanted to. They have the money. They have the manpower. It is just a matter of priority. And we need to be honest, they're spending larger amounts on slop than actual fixes or even making their products better (for the user).
“Priorities” is far too soft a term in this context. These are anti-priorities: not just things they choose not to work on, but things they’ll spend big money to prevent, up to and including bribing, uh I mean lobbying, lawmakers.
Apple supposedly does this with the privacy report cards.
However, I'd be shocked if a cursory audit comparing SDKs embedded in apps and disclosed data sales showed they were effectively enforcing anything at all.
> Would you ban ad supported apps?
Yes, I absolutely would. Advertisements are a scourge upon people's wellbeing on top of being ugly and intrusive.
If you want to build a free product, that's great. Build a free product.
If you want to make money from your product, then charge for your product.
>Yes, I absolutely would.
And then you will get fired by the end of day.
Luckily I don't work for an ad-supported business.
2 replies →
Ultimately the fact that ad sdks have such wide access to location information is a choice by the platforms. I've long wanted meaningful process isolation between the app and its ad sdks, but right now there's oodles of them that just squat on location data when the app requests it.
> I'm not sure how the OS is to blame.
Read the TOS.