Comment by LordDragonfang
21 hours ago
> Yet I regularly catch them making errors that a human never would
I have yet to see a "error" that modern frontier models make that I could not imagine a human making - average humans are way more error prone than the kind of person who posts here thinks, because the social sorting effects of intelligence are so strong you almost never actually interact with people more than a half standard deviation away. (The one exception is errors in spatial reasoning with things humans are intimately familiar with - for example, clothing - because LLMs live in literary space, not physics space, and only know about these things secondhand)
> and which betray a fatal lack of any sort of mental model.
This has not been a remotely credible claim for at least the past six months, and it seemed obviously untrue for probably a year before then. They clearly do have a mental model of things, it's just not one that maps cleanly to the model of a human who lives in 3D space. In fact, their model of how humans interact is so good that you forget that you're talking to something that has to infer rather than intuit how the physical world works, and then attribute failures of that model to not having one.
> I have yet to see a "error" that modern frontier models make that I could not imagine a human making
I mostly agree if "a human" is just any person we pluck of the street. What I still see with some regularity is the models (right now, primarily Opus 4.6 through Claude Code) making mistakes that humans:
- working in the same field/area as me (nothing particularly exotic, subfield of CS, not theory)
- with even a fraction of the declarative knowledge about the field as the LLM
- with even a fraction of frontier LLM abilities suggested by their perf in mathematical/informatics Olympiads
would never make. Basically, errors I'd never expect to see from a human coworker (or myself). I don't yet consider myself an expert in my subfield, and I'll almost certainly never be a top expert in it. Often the errors seem to present to me as just "really atrocious intuition." If the LLM ran with some of them they would cause huge problems.
In many regards the models are clearly superhuman already.
> you almost never actually interact with people more than a half standard deviation away
I wasn't talking about the average person there but rather those who could also craft the high undergrad to low grad level explanations I referred to.
> This has not been a remotely credible claim for at least the past six months
Well it's happened to me within the past six months (actually within the past month) so I don't know what you want from me. I wasn't claiming that they never exhibit evidence of a mental model (can't prove a negative anyhow). There are cases where they have rendered a detailed explanation to me yet there were issues with it that you simply could not make if you had a working mental model of the subject that matched the level of the explanation provided (IMO obviously). Imagine a toddler spewing a quantum mechanics textbook at you but then uttering something completely absurd that reveals an inherent lack of understanding; not a minor slip up but a fundamental lack of comprehension. Like I said it's really weird and I'm not sure what to make of it nor how to properly articulate the details.
I'm aware it's not a rigorous claim. I have no idea how you'd go about characterizing the phenomenon.
How much of this is expectations setting by the heights models reach? i.e. of we could assess a consistent floor of model performance in a vacuum, would we say it's better at "AGI" than the bottom 0.1% of humans?
Not sure how to answer because we were off on a tangent there about mental models.
I think AGI is two things. Intelligence at a given task, which can be scored versus humans or otherwise. And generalization which is entirely separate. We already have superhuman non-general models in a few domains.
So I don't think that "better than AGI at % of humans" is a sensible statement, at least not initially.
Right now humans generalize to all integers while AI companies keep manually adding additional integers to a finite list and bystanders make claims of generality. If you've still got a finite list you aren't general regardless of how long the list is.
If at some point a model shows up that works on all even integers but not odd ones then I guess you could reasonably claim you had AGI that was 50% of what humans achieve. If a model that generalizes to all the reals shows up then it will have exceeded human generality by an infinite degree. We'll cross those bridges when we come to them - I don't think we're there yet.
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