Comment by Epholys
12 hours ago
> The $200 per month subscription comes with a ton of usage.
$200 dollars + VAT is half of my rent.
I know HN is not a good place to rant on this subject, but I'm often flabbergasted about the number of people here that lives in a bubble with regard to the price of tech. Or just prices in general.
I remember someone who said a few years ago (I'm paraphrasing): "You could just use one of the empty room in your house!". It was so outlandish I believed it was a joke at first.
EDIT: "not", minor grammar
Thanks for the alternative perspective.
I think I am in the middle. I can afford $200/m but it'd be a brainer. And I don't pay that as I barely use home AI enough to warrant it.
I am also amazed at the richer end of HN but now I realize I am priviledged. Earned it? Like fuck I did. Lucky to be born a geek in late 20c. I'd be useless as a middle ages guy.
If I found myself in the middle ages I’d just become a blacksmith or a miller.
Do you have the genetics for that? It takes a lot of raw strength, and not that much intelligence.
The other part of the bubble is assuming working in projects that allow disclosing any code or project details to a generic third party with that kind of power asymmetry.
That's why ai is for the "rich". Poor people or later on middle class will be left behind....
Nah, that's why you cannot not afford the subscriptions these days. Whatever your needs, ever since Claude Code became a thing, subscription costs come out massively cheaper than pay-as-you-go per-token API pricing. Also SOTA models are so much better than anything else, that using older or open models will just cost you more in tokens/electricity than going for SOTA subscription.
Subscriptions are definitely middle-class targeted. $20/month is not much for the value provided, at least not in the western world.
But if by "rich" you just mean "westerners", then in this sense, the same is and has always been true for computing in general.
The subscriptions are purposely sold for less than cost. The subsidy will end some day.
Not sure. AI is sort of car ownership price. I think while that ain't poor, that is middle class.
So like if you want to start a business of any sort the AI sub is still peanuts.
AI is a car, or a dog, or a mild social life, or a utility bill level of cost. And thats for the level needed for a sane typical developer. (AI maximalists need 250k/y, let them slop it out)
It is not a Cessna, an infinity pool or a 1 month vacation.
It’s a good reminder. Claude Max costs about as much as the global poverty line ($3/day.) I think it’s okay to invest in it, but we should try to make sure it’s worthwhile, and also invest in charity.
$200/mo is a lot, sure, but the shocking part of that comparison is your rent. I didn’t know $400/mo apartments still existed. For most people in the US and EU, $200 would be closer to 15%-20% of rent I think? My cell phone bill for my family is almost $200/mo.
Last year, at first, $200 seemed crazy. Now that I’m getting addicted to coding agents, not so much. Some companies are paying API rates for AI for employees, and it’s a lot more than $200/mo. It seems like funny money, and I’m not sure it’ll last.
It is my belief that rent price scales with the leftover income people have after they've paid for other necessities. Ie if you're from a poorer country/area then things like milk and gasoline will cost a similar amount (maybe 2x difference), but rent will cost a lot less. As people in a country get richer they start paying a larger and larger share of their income as rent of various forms.
Even the US has places with cheap rent/housing. The downside is that there's no (well-paying) work nearby.
It’s true that average rent prices are regional and poorer areas have lower rents, but that doesn’t tend to make much difference in urban areas and large cities where the majority of people live now. Why do you feel that rent scales with disposable income? Economists generally say the opposite based on housing being a core necesessity; that people pay rent in proportion to their income, and only what’s left over the the disposable amount. That’s why we have the 30% rule, for example.
You’re technically correct, btw, rental housing is a market and is subject to market forces, meaning what people are willing to pay. I’m just not so sure about framing rent as being lower priority than other necessities. And rent prices have been increasing faster than other necessities, and faster than income, so that might be a confounding factor in your argument.
Still, my initial reaction above is due to the fact that in the US and in Europe in most large cities, the average rent is north of $1000/mo.
In the US/Western Europe? Because for devs especially in the former, $200 is pocket change, especially for a core productivity tool. And the rent would be in the $1200 to $3000 easily. Same for houses. Maybe not in NY or SF, but in most of the US there's no shortage of house spaces and redundant rooms.
I've seen those comments about $200/month and empty rooms here, so I suppose they mainly come from the US, yes.
So yes, you describe a situation that I feel like a lot of people here don't understand is not the norm.
I compared the subscription with my rent precisely because it's easier to compare: with your numbers it would be like paying from $600 up to $1500 / month. Pretty hard to justify.
> Because for devs especially
Are you not a dev? If not, what would you use a coding tool for? They still require handholding for anything largeish. Still much cheaper than outsource.
You think I don't understand that? I'm friends with people who make little more than that amount per month.
But it's not all that relevant to this conversation. It's not like this is the first time economic inequality is a thing.
It's just as relevant to me factoring in your salary the next time I go buy a car.
First, I've assumed you were in the bubble I described, but that's not the case, so sorry bout that.
Also, I think it's relevant to the conversation.
You replied to someone who said that "you" (undirected pronoun I suppose) can't afford the SOTA that the $200/month Anthropic subscription comes with a ton of usage. So I interpreted it as a general statement. It wasn't what you meant?
I'm a bit lost about who you're talking to/about in your first comment: the person you respond to, a general statement for everyone reading, or yourself?
I assume when somebody says you and is not talking about anyone in particular they mean that it's infeasible for virtually everybody which is certainly not the case. Also you conveniently disregarded the fact that is available on the $20 per month plan.
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For me I pass the token costs off to my clients. Not everyone is a hobbyist burning their own cash on personal projects
Work pays.
I'm not sure I've correctly understood what you're implying.
If it's that I'm not working, well, I'm employed.
It it's that I'm not working enough to not have this money... Well, we still go back to the bubble. Not everywhere in the world you can easily find a job that pays you enough, even if you accept to work more. And the employer will not accept to give developers a $200/month subscription, even less for personal use.
If it's that I'm not working enough and I should go freelancing to work as much as I want and get rich (I'm extrapolating). Well, you're right, I could do that. But (at least at first), I would work a lot more for much less money. And even if I become a recognized freelancer, it doesn't change the fact that I'll earn less money compared to the baseline of SF, or even the USA in the tech sector in general. So, bubble again. I could also, like someone said, put the tokens cost into my hourly/daily rate, but I'll be much more expensive than other freelancers.
Also, but that's a "me case" compared to my previous points, health issues can greatly affect how much work you can do.
Calm down. I meant that my work covers my pro subscription.
> I could also, like someone said, put the tokens cost into my hourly/daily rate, but I'll be much more expensive than other freelancers.
Do you have any evidence of that? I think the OPs are assuming this as a premise so their logic is probably valid but may not be sound logic for you.
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I guess what was meant is that those tools are generally bought by the employer
>I'm often flabbergasted about the number of people here that lives in a bubble with regard to the price of tech
Sorry, no. You live in the bubble, the people you think are living in a bubble are actually doing the very opposite and taking advantage of the lack of bubbles in our globally connected world.
Today, basically anyone can sell any bullshit to billions of people around the world. We’ve never lived in less of a bubble.
I guess all those people who live in not-SF just can't be bothered to succeed!
$20/month is not above middle class in most of the world.
$200/month is, but you don't need that for anything except beyond-casual use of coding agents.
To be fair if you think only people in SF can afford that you do kind of live in a bubble.
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