Comment by Leomuck
14 hours ago
Crazy, I've never heard of such a plan anywhere. But given how essential the internet is to everything we do on a daily basis, that makes a lot of sense. However, I would like to see the existing situation that lead to this decision. Were there many people who couldn't do things anymore due to lacking internet access? Was there public pressure to do this or did they just think it a good idea?
My assumption so far was that there are those who use the internet, they're usually fine, and those that don't - they won't benefit much. But no idea about South Korea. Anyway, cheaper and unlimited access is always a good idea!
At the height of the pandemic, the UK mandated zero-rating data for mobile connection to .gov.uk and .NHS.uk domains, along with several other charitable sites.
(I was part of the team working on that proposal.)
meanwhile Czechia literally BANNED free Wi-Fi in restaurants and other establishments during COVID, so people will spend there less time, I understood the rationale if people already didn't have mobile data in phones anyway
other things Czech gov banned during COVID-19 was singing in public places, no kidding!
And I'm not even going to complain they banned sale of the toys, colored pencils and other items so people will spend less time in the shop, so me and kids could just look at the colored pencils behind the tape because we had to go to shop anyway.
During COVID in Singapore, music in restaurants was banned, as people may talk more loudly to compensate.
> other things Czech gov banned during COVID-19 was singing in public places, no kidding!
So, wait, no Christmas carolling? Was this the doing of Babis? Then only the drunk shall sing in public places, mainly because they're too drunk to care.
This is... Shockingly reasonable. Would be perfect if it included other essential services e.g. domains used for online banking.
It’s technically problematic. The ISP should have little idea of domains you visit. And they can’t already when everything works.
Umm, was it more than an oppportunistic attack at net neurality?
UK has never had net neutrality, there are many limited data phone plans that include unlimited music/video etc
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Even in the US which is well behind SK in the digital curve, I’ve heard anecdotally that a huge problem with reintegrating some populations like the homeless, poor or elderly is that job applications are virtually all online now.
This, and owning a bank account, filing taxes, paying bills are all moving to internet only.
Some coffee shops in china you can't even order or pay without their app.
Crazy even to me, a Korean. I just woke up and saw this news on HN. Over the years I watched the price of data was going down drastically in Korea. I had always complained that data in France was much cheaper like 30gb for 10 eur. Then when I came back after around the end of pandemic, the price of data in Korea was actually quite cheap.
Do I know why? No idea. The article alluded fast AI adoption but even senior Korean citizens are all addicted to youtube videos. Soon they will start using AI. Young people are already heavily using AI for everything. So I don’t think it’s for AI adoption.
The recent hacking incidence was a big one, true. But the price had been going down even before.
> But given how essential the internet is to everything we do on a daily basis, that makes a lot of sense.
Well, water is certainly more essential, yet it isn't free.
Food isn't free. Shelter isn't free.
Besides, the services you'd use over this free connection aren't (necessarily) free.
Its not unreasonable to suspect some other agenda, like easier propaganda, subsidising of social media, ...
Actually food water and shelter are free to those who can't afford it in many developed countries.
Maybe the reduction in gov paper forms printing and processing, offset the mobile costs.
I often hear the argument of savings in printing and postage.
Having seen all the over budget, years delayed or completely failed IT projects in the public sector, I wonder whether there are any savings at all in the end.
(Perspective from a couple of EU countries at different degrees of digitalization)
Canada requires mobile service providers to have a 35$ a month data plan, and the low-income support payments will add 35$ a month to the base rate if you provide a cell phone bill.
TIL, it's not a perfect solution but given how rough telecoms are here it's at least something I guess.
Perhaps there is something more fundamentally wrong here if the government subsidizes privatized infrastructure that is making billions in profit? In the early days of private radio stations governments required all kinds of things to the public's benefit from them, the reasoning was the inherently limited medium of the airways, how quaint.
Maybe not general data cap exemption but for as long as I remember a lot of carriers in Europe whitelist certain apps that people think of as "essential" that work even when you've reached your data limit - such as WhatsApp and Messenger. Perhaps there are certain applications specific to South Korea that people think as essential/universal and expect them to work without a data plan (even maybe related to the digital ID thing they have there).
Here in Spain a few years ago some ISP's just put a data cap about 2.7KBPS (2-3G?) and call it a day. Enough for text sites, messages and the like. But if you were smart (mosh, NNTP)... you could connect to some public Unix servers and fire up Lynx/Links at crazy speeds under a Tmux window and be able to read sites/blog posts and the like. And with edbrowse, even comment on some simple JS sites.
With some cachés set for my audio player I could even listen to some odd Avant Gardé radio streams -think Frank Zappa like- at http://dir.xiph.org with 16 KBPS quality in OPUS format. Not totally robotic, it sounded better than old MP3's at 32KBPS.
But to really reach the poor people, you would also need to deploy phones, not only data/traffic/WiFi: For sure for lot of people 10-20 USD monthly bill is already too high, but buying a phone that is somehow not outdated and capable of running all the apps needed, this is a much higher barrier (of lets say 200-300 USD for a somehow solid phone that will last some time9
> of lets say 200-300 USD for a somehow solid phone
More like 30-50 USD, judging by the research I did in 5 minutes (or 20-30 USD if you agree to a used phone).
No, I understand that Americans love to pay several times more for their houses, healthcare, education, coffee and everything else simply on principle, pretending that there are no other options, but you can literally google the largest phone manufacturers in the world and look at the prices of their current starter models.
And yes, we are talking about full-fledged smartphones that are quite pleasant to use, with up-to-date hardware and the latest versions of the operating system. Not some outdated torture devices with zero reliability.
> google the largest phone manufacturers in the world and look at the prices of their current starter models.
for most people at the very low end of low income and low education group, this is a huge barrier.
Look: I haven been neighbours with people who had to search their whole appartment for a working simple pen to take a note - when asking for it they looked at me like an Alien: Really poor and uneducated people have high barriers in even the simpelst things.
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There's also just an absolutely bonkers number of functional second hand devices out there. A lot of them make their way to Africa as phones people use (and the Chinese repair and refurbishmenr business is huge and a volume business).
There are charities which will also give away phones because for a homeless person a usable phone is quite valuable because it makes it possible to do things like apply for jobs, find services etc. (even if you're just surfing cafe wifi).
I am using an 8 year old phone that was mid when I bought it for ~$300 or so new. It's only in the last year that I've begun to find it annoyingly slow. Now I prefer using an actual computer for most things and only rely on the phone for messaging and maps when I'm out and about (plus some lightweight web browsing) but my point is that mediocre actually works fine. I have hardly any apps on it, if there isn't a web interface I don't need to interact with it.
Phones can be had for a lot less than that - you can find decent enough used phones that will last a year or two for under $100, which is cheap enough that almost everyone can scrounge together the money for it.
I’m guessing you’ve never been poor. For people living in poverty, finding $100 for a one time purchase is extremely difficult - much more than say finding $10 per month. Finance options are notoriously predatory and expensive. Plus if it only lasts a year then the amortized cost is about the same as the hypothetical cheap service.
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A weird part about the modern world is that a cell phone is incredibly cheap compared to shelter, food, or just about anything else. You’d be surprised how many homeless folks have phones.
In SF, I commonly see homeless people with cell phones
California provides free phones and phone service to those who qualify through the California Lifeline program
That may say more about needs than affordability.
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There are many such schemes for low income households in the united states to subsidize internet access for students. There were some federal and other programs.
Probably LTE is cheaper to deploy then actually wiring a house up anyway.
I work with a US non-profit that has provided both free and very low cost Internet access over the last 4 years (fixed home wifi, no phone). We have primarily used 4G/5G, including private networks built and owned by the non-profit, public/private partnerships with cities that own a 4G network, and now primarily very low cost wifi hotspots serviced by a major carrier.
The federal plans still exist, and the wires are already there in most homes, so most providers offer a tiny plan to fit the subsidy.
> Were there many people who couldn't do things anymore due to lacking internet access?
Almost anythijg now requires internet access. Banking, schools, parking, transport tickets, almost any form of communication with almost any organization (besides phone, but some companies don't even have phone numbers anymore) etc.