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Comment by throwaway27448

9 hours ago

What does ingesting 10g of acetaminophen even look like? I've got to imagine the fatal dose is far, far, far lower with chronic usage. Finding out that people are ingesting grams is profoundly disturbing.

I've been prescribed slightly more than 5g per day (2 x 650mg tablets every 6 hours) for pain after an operation jointly with ibuprofen, which is scarily close to the limits.

  • I managed to overdose by accident with severe dental pain. Wasn't thinking straight, took about 8g - which is even more scarily close to the limits.

    I'm fairly sure that caused some liver damage. I wasn't aware of anything apart from feeling a bit weird.

    At the time, I had no idea it was potentially deadly.

I have taken 4-5g in a day while suffering from intense pain before.

There is a limit to the amount of opioids they will prescribe you, even if you are in mind shattering pain. For instance while attempting to get your dental insurance to actually cover a treatment you may find yourself between risking organ damage or risking $5000+ in ER visit bills only to have them refuse to give you anything but Tramadol.

  • It is mind boggling how statements like that are possible in the US.

    I guess it is much better than the situation before that, where you paid $5000+ and they also gave you an opioid addiction.

    • > I guess it is much better than the situation before that, where you paid $5000+ and they also gave you an opioid addiction.

      Having a condition that actually warrants strong opioids and not being able to get them at any price is definitely not an improvement.

      The problem is fundamentally that we want to pretend doctors can always distinguish two people describing the same symptoms when one person actually has them and the other is trying to get drugs. The often can't, so you can either make it hard for people to get pain medications even if they need them, or you can make it easy for people to get them even if they don't. And between these the second one is unambiguously better, because the first one is the government screwing innocent people and the second one is guilty people screwing themselves.

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  • Whenever people here mention to my critique of US healthcare how its now mostly solved problem now, its 'good' to see the other side and reality. It certainly doesn't seem solved unless you have a million or two just laying around on the account, while mortgages and kids tuitions are paid. And I can easily imagine a long term condition or 10 which, if unlucky in terms of treatment cost coverage can wipe out that sum in a decade or two, for a single person.

    Seriously, how can you guys consider this acceptable. I am not of faith but doesn't bible teach to be kind to your fellow men above all? One would expect more adherence to such basic moral rules in such conservative christian society.

    • > Whenever people here mention to my critique of US healthcare how its now mostly solved problem now

      Who says that? I don't think anyone sane can believe that US healthcare is "solved".

    • I don’t know a single person in my life who thinks US healthcare is good, so that’s weird. And many my peers a have good jobs with good health insurance. Everyone I know has at least one bad story about insurance, if you’ve ever had more than really basic checkups.

    • The problem with the US system is that it doesn't know what it's trying to be.

      If you did a socialist system then everything is "free" but possibly slow and expensive on the back end when the government isn't efficient.

      If you did a libertarian system then everything is cheap but it's caveat emptor because nobody is stopping you from buying morphine for $10 from Amazon.

      The US system isn't either one. It pretends to be a market sometimes but then has a bunch of rules to thwart competition. Doctors are required by law to do residency but the government limits the number of residency slots in response to lobbying from the AMA so there aren't enough doctors. "Certificate of need" laws explicitly prohibit new competitors for various services. Insurance is tied to employment to make it hard for individuals to shop around. Laws encourage, require or have the government provide "prescription drug coverage" to make patients price insensitive so drug companies can charge a huge premium for patenting a minor improvement or simple combination of existing drugs and have the patient will something which is marginally if at all better even if it's dramatically more expensive because they don't see the cost when the insurance/government is required to pay for it.

      It's a big pile of corruption, because all that money is going to places. But then if you try to fix it, half the population insists on doing the first one and the other half is only willing to do the second one, and the industry capitalizes on this to prevent either one.

      Maybe instead we should do both rather than neither. Have the government provide a threshold level of services, like emergency rooms and free clinics and anything more than that the local government wants to fund, and then have a minimally regulated private system that anyone can use if the government system doesn't satisfy them.

> What does ingesting 10g of acetaminophen even look like?

20 not-especially-large tablets

  • As an American this is such a weird question to me. I purchase my ibuprofen and benadryl in bottles of anywhere from 400 to 1000 pills every few years.

  • Is this not suicidal behavior?

    • Apparently a common source of problems is taking two different medications without realizing they both contain acetaminophen.

      Suppose your arthritis is acting up, so you start taking Tylenol 8hr Arthritis Pain[1]. That's 2 tablets every 8 hours. They're extended-release with 650mg per tablet. A total of 3900 mg in 24 hours.

      A few days later you get the flu, so you decide to add what seems like a completely different medication: Theraflu Flu Relief Max Strength[2]. It has a cough suppressant and an antihistamine. But each caplet also contains 500 mg of acetaminophen. It says to take 2 caplets every 6 hours, so you take 8 of them in 24 hours[3]. That's another 4000 mg.

      Between the two, you're at 7900 mg.

      Then you wake up in the morning and take both medications, but 30 minutes later you've forgotten you took them. You're not thinking straight because you're sick. So you accidentally take a second dose. That additional 2300 mg brings your total to 10200 mg.

      ---

      [1] https://www.tylenol.com/products/arthritis/tylenol-8hr-arthr...

      [2] https://www.theraflu.com/products/day-night-flu-relief-max-s...

      [3] You weren't supposed to take 8 of them, though. If you'd read the label very carefully, you'd have seen it also says not to exceed 6 in a 24-hour period.

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    • This can easily happen over the course of 24 hours if you're in "fuck me I'll do anything to make it stop" levels of pain. I've taken more than 20 ibuprofens in a day a few times in my life, which, while not medically advised, did not kill me. I actually had no idea acetaminophen was so dangerous.

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Buy a pack of 20x500mg (just checked, common size in Germany), take 2-3 every half hour for a while.

Sure, that's extreme. But if you're unaware of the risks, you feel sick, and you believe it's helping you.

I mean, people aren't killing themselves in masses with it, but it happens every now and then. Easily imaginable that one in a few million people will have enough tendency to take more pills and is unaware of the overdose danger.

Taking too much acetaminophen is bad for you but 10g is 20 extra strength pills and that much isn't likely at all to kill you but damage your organs is quite possible. Reading this might make someone in a bad place think that much will do the job and it won't. Tylenol poisoning's most likely outcome is permanent organ damage and pain, don't try it.