Comment by portly
4 hours ago
I don't understand the point of automating note taking. It never worked for me to copy paste text into my notes and now you can 100x that?
The whole point of taking notes for me is to read a source critically, fit it in my mental model, and then document that. Then sometimes I look it up for the details. But for me the shaping of the mental model is what counts
First of all, this is more than just note taking. It appears to be a (yet another) harness for coordinating work between agents with minimal human intervention. And as such, shouldn’t part of the point be to not have to build that mental model yourself, but rather offload it to the shared LLM “brain”?
Highly debatable whether it’s possible to create anything truly valuable (valuable for the owner of the product that is) with this approach, though. I’m not convinced that it will ever be possible to create valuable products from just a prompt and an agent harness. At that point, the product itself can be (re)created by anyone, product development has been commodified, and the only thing of value is tokens.
My hypothesis is that “do things that don’t scale”[0] will still apply well into the future, but the “things that don’t scale” will change.
All that said, I’ve finally started using Obsidian after setting up some skills for note taking, researching, linking, splitting, and restructuring the knowledge base. I’ve never been able to spend time on keeping it structured, but I now have a digital secretary that can do all of the work I’m too lazy to do. I can just jot down random thoughts and ideas, and the agent helps me structure it, ask follow-up questions, relate it to other ongoing work, and so on. I’m still putting in the work of reading sources and building a mental model, but I’m also getting high-quality notes almost for free.
[0]: https://www.paulgraham.com/ds.html
If you think of an agent harness as a tool which you use to build your product, then I think you might be absolutely right. I don't see it being easy for a harness to ever build a product.
I actually think that the harnesses which do end up building products, the harness will be the product.
As an example, I have a harness which I have my entire team use consistently. The harness is designed for one thing: to get the results I get with less nuanced understanding of why I get it.
Mind you, most of my team members are non-technical, or at least would be considered non-technical, two years ago.
These days, I spend most of my time fine-tuning the harness. What that gives me is a team which is producing at 5x their capacity from three months ago, and I get easier to review, more robust pull requests that I have more confidence in merging.
It's still a far cry from automating the entire process. I still think humans need to give the outcomes to even the harnesses to produce the results.
Hey, one of the contributors to Wuphf here
I think your take is right. This isn't going to help with the internalization of knowledge that note taking will get you. I do think that there is some value in the way we've set up blueprints of agents if you haven't set up a business before to either teach about role functions in a business or get a head start on business that doesn't create something new. At the very least it's a quick setup to getting to experiment.
To the part about note taking (and disclosure) - we are working on a context graph product that lessens the work of reading sources, especially over time and breath to help with a lot of the structure you've mentioned.
> My hypothesis is that “do things that don’t scale”[0] will still apply well into the future, but the “things that don’t scale” will change.
Say more?
I think there‘s a serious issue with people using AI to do an immense amount of busywork and then never look at it again. Colossal waste.
Everyone is writing. Nobody is reading.
In my over a decade of experience as a software engineer, writing code was always a smaller fraction of my time compared to reading code, debating code with colleagues, and wrangling ops. Optimizing for velocity of writing code will inevity lead to spaghetti at best and vaporware at worst.
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Totally agree re note taking. We treat our notes way too lightly, just as an attic or a basement leads to hoarding more stuff than you'll ever need.
Most things do not need to end up in your notes, and LLMs add too much noise, one that you likely never personally verify/filter out at all.
JA Westenberg made a good video essay about it a few days ago:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=3E00ZNdFbEk
I thought this was parody at first as well for a redundant useless product as it was named after the redundant useless product of the same name from The Office (Wuphf.com)
The few scientific studies out there actually show a degradation of output quality when these markdown collections are fully LLM maintained (opposed to an increase when they’re human maintained), which I found fascinating.
I think the sweet spot is human curation of these documents, but unsupervised management is never the answer, especially if you don’t consciously think about debt / drift in these.
Are you referring to the one (1) study that showed that when cheaper LLM's auto-generated an AGENTS.md, it performed more poorly than human editted AGENTS.md? https://arxiv.org/abs/2602.11988
I'd love to see other sources that seek to academically understand how LLM's use context, specifically ones using modern frontier models.
My takeaway from these CLAUDE.md/AGENTS.md efforts isn't that agents can't maintain any form of context at all, rather, that bloated CLAUDE.md files filled with data that agents can gather on the spot very quickly are counter-productive.
For information which cannot be gathered on the spot quickly, clearly (to me) context helps improve quality, and in my experience, having AI summarize some key information in a thread and write to a file, and organize that, has been helpful and useful.
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i've been running a variation of the _llm writes a wiki_ since late february. i run it on a sprite (sprites.dev from fly.io), it's public but i don't particularly advertise it. i completely vibe coded the shit out of it with claude. the app side and the content. the app side makes the content accessible to other agent instances, lists some documents at the root, provides search function, and let's me read it on a browser with nice typography if i want to, as opposed to raw markdown.
it's neat, i can create a new sprite/whatever, point claude at the root, and tell it to setup zswap and it will know exactly how to do so in that environment. if something changes, and there's some fiddling to make it work, i can ask it to write a report and send it in to fold into the existing docs.
Man, there's no point in replying. You are argueing with a non-human therefore the conversation is without meaning and impact and thus a waste of time and energy.
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Then you have never worked at a large enough codebase or across enough many projects?