Comment by pinkmuffinere
12 hours ago
> as far as we know." Every few years, I see in the headlines stuff like "oldest 'human' ever found in X."
The discovery of older humans does not respond to the point you’re arguing against — in evolutionary time scales, humans are recent.
> The theory of evolution itself has morphed since Darwin [0], and is probably far from being in its definitive form.
Fields continue to change as they grow older, but the magnitude of changes tend to get smaller. Of course evolution will change, but it would be very surprising to have large changes in the fundamental elements
> Thinking about painful pregnancies and birth, [1] hints at the "need" for pain/discomfort.
Evolution only optimizes for what results in dna being passed on. It doesn’t care about ancillary details. I think painful childbirth pretty much shouldn’t matter much to evolution, because the parents have no control over the birth at that point — it’s happening one way or another. Perhaps it promotes bonding with the child, or something like that? But in general, I think it’s wrong to say “evolution provided X, so X must be needed”. If X has no significant effect on the passage of dna, then it could just be random noise.
> The discovery of older humans does not respond to the point you’re arguing against — in evolutionary time scales, humans are recent.
I meant, evolutionary time scales themselves are subjected to accuracy issues. The measurements techniques themselves are subject to accuracy issues as well.
> but the magnitude of changes tend to get smaller
Agreeing with the tendency, but there are great exceptions; physics comes to mind. The fact that we still don't properly understand QM, and physics being conceptually at the root of many sciences, a proper understanding of it may force to revisit a few things "up there".
> I think painful childbirth pretty much shouldn’t matter much to evolution, because the parents have no control over the birth at that point
Sorry, I (genuinely) don't get the argument.
Regardless, I saw articles [0][1] linking (minor) DNA alterations to exercising. It'd be interesting to see how body stresses in general could impact DNA, and how this would wrap up with evolution.
> then it could just be random noise.
Well, the problem with "noise", is that from the outset, we can't know distinguish between "actual noise" − assuming such a thing exist − or if it's merely a reflection of ignorance. The latter at least gives us direction in which to search stuff. So "evolution provided X, so X _may_ be needed" I guess
[0]: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41514-025-00217-0
[1]: https://cordis.europa.eu/article/id/34391-scientists-discove...