Comment by 1970-01-01
1 day ago
This is how peak oil happens. Without a healty cartel, oil is doomed. Solar, wind, geothermal, hydro, nuclear. These are more than ripe to disrupt energy into the 21st century.
1 day ago
This is how peak oil happens. Without a healty cartel, oil is doomed. Solar, wind, geothermal, hydro, nuclear. These are more than ripe to disrupt energy into the 21st century.
> Without a healty cartel, oil is doomed
Why/how?
Without a healthy cartel, wouldn't prices go down? Cheaper oil means less adoption of alternate energy sources.
The goal of the cartel was to stabilize prices right in the sweet spot to keep the world addicted. Too low and players start losing money, too high and people switch away from oil, too much volatility, and people switch away from oil.
> Too low and players start losing money
Only the non-competitive ones. That's how competition works.
OPEC would be deemed an illegal anti-consumer price fixing scheme under the laws of any country with even the most basic of anti-trust laws, if not for the fact that its entirely composed of sovereign countries not subject to any law but their own.
3 replies →
> The goal of the cartel was to stabilize prices right in the sweet spot to keep the world addicted.
If the price of oil remains low the gulf governments can't fund their social programs and risk instability. That may not be the only reason for OPEC but it's a major one.
When fracking really took off the writing was on the wall and I think many OPEC nations have since taken serious measures to shield themselves from price drops. This is probably why the UAE can now feasibly leave OPEC. I thought the fracking boom was the end of OPEC but they managed to hang on.
The prices would go down too much, and then infrastructure would rot as production slows down. Then, prices would skyrocket, and so on.
Oil production and distribution is basically infrastructure, like energy or internet. It can't really follow free market dynamics without eating itself.
A healthy cartel means consistent oil prices. Without it, oil may average cheaper over the long term (and almost certainly over the short term), but there will be a lot more variance.
Ok? If you can’t have price variance buy futures. Price variance doesn’t matter for consumers, just average price.
1 reply →
I guess the silver lining from this mess is that maybe some more governments realize they don’t want their energy policy to force them into a recession every time there’s a conflict in the Middle East
how is the cartel not healthy? uae is 12%
> Solar, wind, geothermal, hydro, nuclear. These are more than ripe to disrupt energy into the 21st century.
Yes and we've seen negative electricity price in some EU countries a few days ago: very sunny days but not too warm, perfect for solar panels. Supply surpassing consumption: negative electricity prices.
While we're, supposedly, living through an energy crisis. There may oil shipment issues and there are issues with energy due to the Russia/Ukraine war too but... Many already understood that there were solutions to not be entirely dependent on oil.
Doomsayers are going to argue that "we need electricity during the winter at 6 pm" so a "largely negative electricity on a sunny sunday means nothing" (Belgium, two days ago: hugely negative electricity prices, for example and it's not the only case) but the truth is: we're not anywhere near as dependent on oil as we were during the Yum Kippur war / 1973 oil shock.
And oil is definitely limited in how high it can go for as soon as it goes up, suddenly other energy source make more and more sense economically.
Once again: negative electricity prices two days ago. Let that sink in.
The problem is that grid scale power plants can't just turn on when the sun isn't shining. If the negative prices during the day and positive prices at night lead to energy storage, then it's a solution. Otherwise, it's just a glut at some times of day.
This is where grid scale batteries come in. Looking forward to that. (As long as they can avoid blowing up like the one in Monterey…)
>The problem is that grid scale power plants can't just turn on when the sun isn't shining
They can, though? Batteries can offset the start-up times, otherwise gas plants can start up within minutes and nuclear can ramp up within days
1 reply →