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Comment by 3form

6 hours ago

I think doublespeak is more along the lines of calling ads a "product recommendation strategy". This was either a) a plain lie b) they're actually at their last resort.

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3form

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danparsonson  5 hours ago

> This was either a) a plain lie b) they're actually at their last resort.

That's thinking like a normal honest human :-) My point is that it was likely not a statement about reality (true or false) at all, but rather a phrase designed to elicit some response in the listener, such as the idea: 'Sam Altman isn't the kind of CEO who would put ads in his products unless he really had to'.

He's not describing how things are, but how he wants you to think about them.

  • blendergeek  41 minutes ago

    > He's not describing how things are, but how he wants you to think about them.

    That is what a lie is. The fact that some people think he exists in a different plane of existence from normal humans does not change the meaning of “lie”.

  • SiempreViernes  4 hours ago

    I mean, I get that you are trying to make a subtle point but this:

    > He's not describing how things are, but how he wants you to think about them.

    is just a fancy way to describe lies. I'm not even sure if it specifies some interesting subset of lies, I think it's just the plain definition.

    • tejohnso  32 minutes ago

      Oh I think there's a big difference. One is clever, manipulative, meant to control or coerce, possibly to facilitate long term strategic goals. The other could be a simple immediate denial of fact to avoid blame. I think the personality and capabilities of the person in the former case is more concerning.

    • danparsonson  3 hours ago

      I don't want to split hairs but I posit there is a difference because 'how I want you to think about things' could be a mixture of lies, truths, and half-truths.

      'Lying', to me, implies some relationship with reality - I'm lying if I know there's no orange in my bag but I tell you that there is. What we're talking about is someone who might not know or care whether the orange or even the bag exists at all, and is just saying things to get some specific response out of the audience. The deception or not is irrelevant really.

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  • mcmoor  4 hours ago

    Feels like the harm of "at last resort" lie is more harmful than the benefit of "is being honest" for him.

  • 3form  5 hours ago

    I agree with your point. Mine was about the word doublespeak for this, which I think it's not - it's a lie in effect, but I think it is something like what you say, for which I don't know a term of. A bunch of sentences that are said in a complete disregard for truths and untruths; instead they are supposed to get you to believe something.

    This also kinda fits the profile of Altman that I'm getting from what I have seen - admittedly without looking in-depth. A person who is on surface a pathological liar, but in fact in a closer look he just says things. They just _happen_ to be complete lies, because that's what you need to do to achieve the goal in the set of circumstances. It's just that because it's as morally objectionable as outright lying, some people would pause and think before doing it, while he seems to just have no qualms at all.