Comment by psychoslave
10 days ago
Will you have a way to measure the ecological impact it has to make such a throw away attempt?
Not actually pointing on you or anyone in particular here to be clear. And if the answer would be "not much more than forgetting the light when leaving the toilets", certainly that would be a "go have fun" cheerleading on my part.
But otherwise we collectively have to keep in mind that the prompt that we can throw mindlessly and without perceiving any direct negative feedback are possibly not anodyne.
So if you can measure it, come back also with these numbers so we can all take that into consideration next time the thrill to run it just to see what happens rise in our mind. Thanks.
Right now it seems to say:
> Showing 1,808 changed files with 790,916 additions and 151 deletions.
Just looking at the git diff [0].
I looked at one of these rust port files [1]. Its 827 loc and apparently 7,576 tokens. So that gives you a first order guess that the full 700k additions is around 8 million output tokens. Obviously there are some tool calls, reasoning, reads of the zig version, and fixing compile errors as overhead. So I would guess maybe this is like 40 million tokens by multiplying by 5?
If we guess that is around $200 to $500 in token spend. We can probably guess that it emits around the same as buying $100 in gas? Or like 50 or so kgs of CO2?
[0] https://github.com/oven-sh/bun/compare/main...claude/phase-a...
[1] https://github.com/oven-sh/bun/blob/dacc59c62a8f93eabe6d9998...
Thanks, that's a really great answer.
It feels odd that the same message can be thus down voted and give the impulse to provide courteous response with reasoning, metrics and values.
Glory to your kindness and informarive way to react.
Less than the impact of people who can't be bothered to remember basic historical facts or directions in terms of hitting Google services dozens of times a day across the population.
Probably less than the impact of having dozens/hundreds of actual developers, each with a dedicated computer running for months/years in what it would take for a similar effort.
If you want to go live in the woods and farm/hunt for yourself, feel free. I'd suggest you stay away from the museums with paint and not glue yourself to a car mfg.
Isn't b it same to emit doubts that the resources required to find and access webpages or use a GPS is causing at scale the same ecological impact as everyone selling the world by the token. Though that might be wrong, of course, then doubts should be addressed with proper reasoning, not aggressive rejection which would be a call to run with a blind fold.
Having people working together at some goal is not not going to create the same social structures as running LLMs at the same goal. That's missing the ecosocietal forest for the digital output.
Actually, at societal level, no, people are not free to go into gather and hunt mode, that is not at scale. Sure some individual can do it on the margin, but by definition that won't make the mainstream societal impact disappear.
I'm rejecting the pedantry of the premise altogether. YOU don't know the sources of energy used for the data centers in question... you aren't responsible and in a position to change anything... you are making statements to a negative assumption from the start and in such a hostile manner that any reasonable person would probably just ignore you. (I'm not always the most reasonable person)
As for social structures in creating software... the social structures around creating software shouldn't be a goal... software serves to scratch an itch or serve a purpose... and that purpose can even be social or entertainment... but the creation of the software itself doesn't need to serve any other purpose and if it can be done via automation, or partly automation, all the better.
As to going into hunter/gatherer mode... have you tried? My brother isn't even online and regularly hunts and fishes... so did my dad. They weren't wealthy people and still managed to get by. A lot of people do and did through history... because most people wouldn't be willing to do it... I realize that some countries and regions are more populated... but there's plenty of space in the US to achieve this kind of lifestyle.
For that matter, there's absolutely very little standing in your way if YOU want to take on the goals of creating cleaner energy or pairing with "responsible" data centers.
But I really think you're just virtue signaling and grand standing in order to try to shame others because you feel guilty for things you aren't actually responsible for.
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