Comment by ordu
9 hours ago
How did you jumped to qualia from consciousness? I can see how this is a strong evidence against LLM being conscious, but to my mind it doesn't imply in any way or form that they do not experience qualia.
Or... well, ok, maybe they can't experience if they are not conscious? I see how this can be argued, but I still do not agree. I'm sure qualia is created not by consciousness (I would notice if it was), and I'm sure it is created not for consciousness specifically, it must have some other uses too.
How can qualia be experienced if not from a conscious observer? It's the same question as asking if a tree falls in the woods with no one to hear or know about it.
People have different notions of what “qualia” means. To me, the experience of qualia is the perception of qualities, or of the texture, of inner processings of the brain. Not consciously experiencing them doesn’t mean that these qualities aren’t there, just like not consciously experiencing sounds wouldn’t mean that the sounds aren’t there, and may be unconsciously processed.
I don’t think that “experience as such” makes any sense. Experience is always of something. And that in turn implies that the something that is being experienced also exists independently of it being experienced.
No disagreements with what you said in your first paragraph.
> I'm sure qualia is created not by consciousness
Whether or not qualia is created by consciousness, I don't see how we necessarily can tell one way or the other. We don't exactly have great introspective tools to do such self analysis, not to mention what we think we feel is often illusory/not reflective of reality.
Yeah, I think you are right. "The content of consciousness" and "consciousness" are different things, and I mixed them up, when writing that sentence. I can watch the content, but not other parts that may be producing it.
Moreover, thinking about it, I come to a conclusion, that if I cannot reflect on qualia creation, then it is a (weak) evidence for qualia created by consciousness. I suppose the consciousness is harder to reflect on than other things, hard to map it into states of the content of consciousness. Like, I can reflect on my vision and see some hints on how I get these wonderful pictures, despite it being definitely not consciousness, I can reflect on how I produce or decode language. And to my mind it is because consciousness was devised to reflect on these things, so I could report on my observations to others. But to reflect on itself is a wholly different matter.
We can't even meaningfully prove that human beings have qualia
We can’t meaningfully deny humans have qualia, there would be too much baby and not enough bathwater.