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Comment by michaelt

4 hours ago

The trick is to define "privacy-preserving age verification" in an extremely narrow way that ignores any other privacy concerns.

For example, imagine you put the same private key into the 'secure element' of every single iphone. You use code signing so that key is only unlocked when the phone is running unmodified iOS with all security updates. You use encryption and remote attestation for the front-facing camera and face id depth sensor. You use NFC to read government-authenticated age and appearance data from biometric passport chips (or digital ID cards) and you store it on-device.

Then, when you want to access pornhub, they send an age challenge to your device, your device makes sure your face matches the stored passport, and if so it signs the challenge with the private key.

Pornhub gets an Apple-signed attestation of age - but because every phone signs with challenges with the same private key, Pornhub can't link it to a particular phone or identity document.

So in a very narrow sense, privacy is preserved.

You can't use someone else's ID, as it checks your face every time. You can't fool it with a photo of the person because of the depth sensor. You can't MITM/replay the camera/depth data because the link is encrypted. You can't substitute software that skips the check with a rooted phone because of the code signing. Security holes can be closed by just pushing a mandatory OS update.

Sure, it doesn't work on PCs. Doesn't work on Linux, or on unlocked/rooted phones. It hands users' government ID documents over to Google and Apple. It requires people to carry foreign-made, battery powered, network connected GPS trackers (with cameras, microphones and speech recognition) with them. And there are non-negotiable terms of service everyone must agree to. But if you define "privacy-preserving" to ignore all that stuff and only consider whether Pornhub learns your identity, it's privacy-preserving.

That key will get leaked. A key that has to go into every phone, even if done at the manufacturer and onto the TPM chip, will get out.

Also even if it doesn't get leaked directly, the security of TPM chips is not absolute. Secrets from them can theoretically be extracted given an attacker with sufficient means and motivation. Normally nothing that's on a typical TPM chip would warrant a project of that magnitude, but a widely used private key can change that equation.

Plus a TPM chip doesn't really have means to tell the phone isn't being lied to. You could swap out the actual phone camera hardware and sensors for a custom board that feeds the entire phone camera data of your choosing and it would be none-the-wiser.

  • > That key will get leaked.

    Maybe? But biometric passports, chip-and-pin payment cards and SIM cards seem to do reasonably well. And Apple can always push out a mandatory software update that rotates the key, if they need to.

    > You could swap out the actual phone camera hardware and sensors for a custom board that feeds the entire phone camera data of your choosing and it would be none-the-wiser.

    Apple's 'TrueDepth' cameras are serialised and paired with the rest of the device. The touch ID sensors were before that too.

    I don't know the precise details, but reports from people trying to repair devices independently of Apple are that the phone is very much the wiser.

    e.g. https://support.apple.com/en-gb/120567 https://www.reddit.com/r/iphonehelp/comments/1dl38kq/iphone_...

All so kids can't access PornHub?

Jesus Christ.

14 year old me ran into porn on the internet all the time. It didn't turn me into a serial killer.

Meanwhile we let kids have exposure to algorithms that pervert their sense of self worth, get them addicted to dopamine and gambling, and make them feel inferior to their peers.

We have the wrong priorities as a society.

And this bullshit is going to turn us into a completely tracked, monitored, controlled bunch of cattle.

We're building 1984 and we're happy about it.