There's a wonderful book by one of the discoverers of quasicrystals, Paul Steinhardt, called "The second kind of impossible" which is a fantastic read and full of the excitement you alluded to. Very accessible and enjoyable.
Just a note, clathrates in general aren't rare or exotic at all, in fact methane clathrates are estimated in the million-cubic-km range. It's this specific type of clathrate, created under exotic circumstances, that's unusual.
What was special about the first nuclear test, rather than the thousands of others, at least hundreds of which were also in the Nevada desert?
Obviously it's historically significant, and the new forms of matter were first discovered there , so that's why trinitite is named after the site. But 80 years later, wouldn't we expect the other bomb sites to have just as many interesting chemical reactions?
We do. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinitite#Similar_materials says "Occasionally, the name trinitite is broadly applied to all glassy residues of nuclear bomb testing, not just the Trinity test" and lists hiroshimaite and kharitonchiki as similar glassy residues from Hiroshima and the Semipalatinsk Test Site, respectively.
Adding to this, I seem to recall that the specific geological/chemical conditions on the site is consequential for the sorts of glass produced. So presumably, Hiroshmiaite and Trinitite would actually be physically distinct as a material.
As I recall, research on meteorite impacts use the similarly formed Impactite to deduce various things about ancient impact sites. As an aside, I think they also do really elaborate calculations of force and angle of impact based on surveying the spread pattern and distribution of these little glass chunks.
I have some Trinitite. It's easy to obtain. You can buy it in rock shops, especially in the Southwest. Back in the day, when they opened the Trinity site to the public a couple of days a year, there was no prohibition on collecting Trinitite. That's why rock shops have it.
They still open the site to the public one or two days a year but they won't let you collect Trinitite any more. You can walk on it but don't try to put it in your pocket or a person with a gun will pull you aside for a chat.
There's not much public access to the sites in Nevada; at least until the DOE resumes their bus tours and they're even more hard over about not letting you pick up anything.
For the same reason why in English 12 = twelve, but 14 = fourteen. Not all numerals are formed by the same rule.
The correspondents of the -teen numbers in Greek were formed similarly with English, after the model of 14 = four and ten = "tetrakaideka".
"Tetrakaideka" is a contracted form of 14, normally used in compound words. When "14" was an isolated word, it would have been "tettarakaideka" or "tessarakaideka". These are the forms for the neuter gender, the numeral "4" = "tettara" or "tessara" (depending on the dialect) was changed by declension for other genders and cases.
In Ancient Greek numbers bigger than 20, the word "and" = "kai" was usually omitted, but then the bigger number was always the first like in "twenty-four". When "and" was inserted, then the order could also be inverse, like in "four-and-twenty".
Because the Greek word for 12 is something like "though-theka". And the word for 14 is "theka-tessera". Like most European languages, 11 and 12 are special, then it reverts to the "single digit - ten" or "ten - single digit" pattern.
As the sibling comment already said "kai" (pronounced ke like in keg) just means "and". So it literally means 4 and 10 sides in greek. But I have often seen it written as τετραδεκάεδρο (tetradecahedron) in greek as well, so without the kai part. I'm not sure why it is 4 and 10 instead of 14 though. It would be more natural in greek that way (δεκατετράεδρο - decatetrahedron). Maybe it is for putting the distinctive part (4) first, or maybe it sounded more "poetic" like that to someone and then it stuck.
I think the three-and-ten, four-and-ten way of expressing numbers is primarily an ancient Greek thing. The modern numbers are expressed differently (δεκατέσσερα / dekatessara for fourteen, for example). In a lot of older European languages 11 and 12 behaved irregularly. You could argue that they do in English too (we don't have oneteen and twoteen).
I haven't read of any particular reason for this, but I'd posit that numbers up to twelve were more commonly used in everyday life, so shorter, irregular forms were easier to use and remember. Much like many of the irregular verb forms in spoken language happened because they were so commonly used.
The ancient Greek system also gave us triskaidekaphobia - the fear of the number 13.
Ancient Greek spans several centuries of sound shifts and many dialects. It cannot easily be simplified into one specific pronunciation, particularly not one that is based on your specific dialect of English. Wiktionary has /kǎi̯/, /ˈkɛ/, /ˈcɛ/ and /ˈce/ for "καὶ".
> The only other known naturally forming quasicrystal was found inside meteorite fragments
Does it really count as "naturally forming" if we had to artificially construct and detonate a nuke during a carefully conducted experiment to create this one?
Well, it's more natural than something like a lab diamond. This one forms naturally given unnaturally created, but not completely implausible, conditions. There is a big difference between "we blew up rocks and they formed this mineral" and "we treated rocks with X acid and Y acid and then carefully annealed them under extreme pressure and they formed this mineral"
I doubt many people would think that was natural and if the beaver wasn't killed outright for acting so unnaturally it'd probably spend the rest of its life in a lab being researched.
How do we know the quasicrystals in the meteorite fragments are naturally occurring, and weren't created by nuclear detonations on an alien planet, then blasted off into space when an asteroid hit the site? Or perhaps the nuclear explosion was tested on an asteroid rather than a planet.
Diamonds are also product of nature, but when we grow them in a lab they aren't often considered to be "naturally formed". It's just that the lab we used in this instance was part of the Jornada del Muerto.
One language usage question, and one content question:
"Melted sand"?? Isn't it "molten sand"? Is my hunch completely wrong, or is the author not a native speaker? Neither am I, but melted sand sounds so weird to my ears.
This all happened in a matter of seconds, so atoms didn’t have time to arrange into stable structures,[...]
Isn't seconds kinda like ages at that scale? Atoms needing longer than seconds to arrange under super high pressure sounds also dubious? But I am no expert in that area.
To my ears “Molten” would imply that the sand is currently in liquid form. The sense ”melted” is used here, as having been melted, seems right. You melt sand to get molten sand, right?
"Molten" to me implies it is still liquid. Molten salt reactors, molten magma from a volcano, molten sand, molten steel, dipping something into molten cheese. All fluid.
If I was to nitpick, "melted" is kind of inaccurate and not entirely natural in this context. Technically, molten sand is also melted sand, because that's how you get it to that state? Usually, you'd hear about solidified magma, crystalized sand, cast iron, air-cast steel, unevenly settled corium... to make a better point on how it turned back into a solid and what to expect from it - something like "The molten sand crystalized into an unusual structure" would be clearer.
I'd usually rather hear "melted" if it is important to note that this had a phase change and back. Plastic on an electrical device may look melted, indicating heat. A hardened steel part may look melted, which may damage the hardening. Rubber on a hydraulic line may look melted, also indicating heat. A plastic container looking melted in the context of chemicals may indicate some compromise.
It’s being used as a participial adjective here. I don’t think there’s much semantic nuance in the distinction between “melted” and “molten.” It comes down to common usage. “Molten sand” sounds more suitable to my ears, but “melted butter” also sounds better than “molten butter.” Odd, I think it’s part of a trend to replace the use of the past participle in some adjectival contexts. Maybe melted/molten is just an incomplete transition.
Think of dropping a water balloon onto a pin. It pops instantly, but the water (like the temperature and overpressure) takes a while to dissipate into a puddle.
Something like this came up in Robert R. McCammon's 1987 book Swan Song[1], one of the first novels to win the Bram Stoker award[2] for Best Novel (alongside Stephen King's Misery that year).
One of the survivors finds a glass ring (something like trinitite) among the post-nuclear-blast rubble of Saks Fifth Avenue[3] in New York and sees visions of the future (or something) through it.
Swan Song, coincidentally, is getting a pilot as a TV series. I'm not sure if it's gotten stuck in development hell or if it's actually going somewhere, it's only been 18 months or so since screenwriting started.
The video game S.T.A.L.K.E.R is happening in the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone, an area filled with super natural anomalies and artifacts due to the radiation. A legend/rumor says that there is a special crystal granting any wish at the center of the zone, inside the power plant's sarcophagus. The existence of the crystal can't be verified because a cultist faction, The monolith, is preventing anyone to reach the center.
While the news is interesting in itself, I found the lack of illustrations disappointing.
When discussing new novel molecular structures, one would think providing a concrete visuals of what they look like more interesting than human-scale photos of materials containing them?
https://web.archive.org/web/20260516000259/https://www.scien...
> "a quasicrystal — a kind of matter scientists once thought impossible that challenges traditional ideas about how solids form"
Whenever I read a phrase about scientists observing something they thought was impossible ... I get really excited for scientists in that field! :-)
There's a wonderful book by one of the discoverers of quasicrystals, Paul Steinhardt, called "The second kind of impossible" which is a fantastic read and full of the excitement you alluded to. Very accessible and enjoyable.
Science advances one “huh, that’s weird” at a time.
Just a note, clathrates in general aren't rare or exotic at all, in fact methane clathrates are estimated in the million-cubic-km range. It's this specific type of clathrate, created under exotic circumstances, that's unusual.
What was special about the first nuclear test, rather than the thousands of others, at least hundreds of which were also in the Nevada desert?
Obviously it's historically significant, and the new forms of matter were first discovered there , so that's why trinitite is named after the site. But 80 years later, wouldn't we expect the other bomb sites to have just as many interesting chemical reactions?
We do. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinitite#Similar_materials says "Occasionally, the name trinitite is broadly applied to all glassy residues of nuclear bomb testing, not just the Trinity test" and lists hiroshimaite and kharitonchiki as similar glassy residues from Hiroshima and the Semipalatinsk Test Site, respectively.
The general term for for the fused glass-like material formed during a nuclear test" seems to be "atomsite" - https://www.osti.gov/pages/servlets/purl/3001767 . Some images of atomsite from the Trinity and Semipalatinsk test sites are at http://www.radioaktivitaet.uni-bremen.de/downloads/Pittauero...
As a wild guess, what's special is it might be the easiest to get, with many samples to study.
Adding to this, I seem to recall that the specific geological/chemical conditions on the site is consequential for the sorts of glass produced. So presumably, Hiroshmiaite and Trinitite would actually be physically distinct as a material.
As I recall, research on meteorite impacts use the similarly formed Impactite to deduce various things about ancient impact sites. As an aside, I think they also do really elaborate calculations of force and angle of impact based on surveying the spread pattern and distribution of these little glass chunks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impactite
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Availability is probably the answer.
I have some Trinitite. It's easy to obtain. You can buy it in rock shops, especially in the Southwest. Back in the day, when they opened the Trinity site to the public a couple of days a year, there was no prohibition on collecting Trinitite. That's why rock shops have it.
They still open the site to the public one or two days a year but they won't let you collect Trinitite any more. You can walk on it but don't try to put it in your pocket or a person with a gun will pull you aside for a chat.
https://www.nps.gov/thingstodo/alamogordo-visit-the-trinity-...
There's not much public access to the sites in Nevada; at least until the DOE resumes their bus tours and they're even more hard over about not letting you pick up anything.
https://nnss.gov/community/monthly-community-public-tours/
It’s probably just that more people are looking at the trinity site because of said historic significance
The Trinity test took place in New Mexico, not Nevada.
Trinity: https://www.lanl.gov/media/publications/1663/0922-revising-t...
"also in the Nevada desert" - huh? The first test was in NM. Probably irrelevant to your point, but...
> The clathrate’s “cage” shapes are 12-sided dodecahedrons and 14-sided tetrakaidecahedrons made of silicon atoms...
Totally OT but if "dodeca" means 12, why isn't 14 just "tetradeca"? What's the "kai" for?
For the same reason why in English 12 = twelve, but 14 = fourteen. Not all numerals are formed by the same rule.
The correspondents of the -teen numbers in Greek were formed similarly with English, after the model of 14 = four and ten = "tetrakaideka".
"Tetrakaideka" is a contracted form of 14, normally used in compound words. When "14" was an isolated word, it would have been "tettarakaideka" or "tessarakaideka". These are the forms for the neuter gender, the numeral "4" = "tettara" or "tessara" (depending on the dialect) was changed by declension for other genders and cases.
In Ancient Greek numbers bigger than 20, the word "and" = "kai" was usually omitted, but then the bigger number was always the first like in "twenty-four". When "and" was inserted, then the order could also be inverse, like in "four-and-twenty".
kai means "and"
I guess like asking why 120 is said "one hundred and twenty" in some dialects.
Maybe that's how 14 and 12 are written in Greek.
The Greek term would be decatetrahedron.
2 replies →
Ah I see, thanks!
Because the Greek word for 12 is something like "though-theka". And the word for 14 is "theka-tessera". Like most European languages, 11 and 12 are special, then it reverts to the "single digit - ten" or "ten - single digit" pattern.
"kai" is "and" in Greek.
As the sibling comment already said "kai" (pronounced ke like in keg) just means "and". So it literally means 4 and 10 sides in greek. But I have often seen it written as τετραδεκάεδρο (tetradecahedron) in greek as well, so without the kai part. I'm not sure why it is 4 and 10 instead of 14 though. It would be more natural in greek that way (δεκατετράεδρο - decatetrahedron). Maybe it is for putting the distinctive part (4) first, or maybe it sounded more "poetic" like that to someone and then it stuck.
I think the three-and-ten, four-and-ten way of expressing numbers is primarily an ancient Greek thing. The modern numbers are expressed differently (δεκατέσσερα / dekatessara for fourteen, for example). In a lot of older European languages 11 and 12 behaved irregularly. You could argue that they do in English too (we don't have oneteen and twoteen).
I haven't read of any particular reason for this, but I'd posit that numbers up to twelve were more commonly used in everyday life, so shorter, irregular forms were easier to use and remember. Much like many of the irregular verb forms in spoken language happened because they were so commonly used.
The ancient Greek system also gave us triskaidekaphobia - the fear of the number 13.
8 replies →
> "kai" (pronounced ke like in keg)
Ancient Greek spans several centuries of sound shifts and many dialects. It cannot easily be simplified into one specific pronunciation, particularly not one that is based on your specific dialect of English. Wiktionary has /kǎi̯/, /ˈkɛ/, /ˈcɛ/ and /ˈce/ for "καὶ".
1 reply →
Nobody would be so weird as to put the "four" first when pronouncing "14".
:-)
2 replies →
Four and twenty blackbirds, baked in a pie.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sing_a_Song_of_Sixpence
> The only other known naturally forming quasicrystal was found inside meteorite fragments
Does it really count as "naturally forming" if we had to artificially construct and detonate a nuke during a carefully conducted experiment to create this one?
Well, it's more natural than something like a lab diamond. This one forms naturally given unnaturally created, but not completely implausible, conditions. There is a big difference between "we blew up rocks and they formed this mineral" and "we treated rocks with X acid and Y acid and then carefully annealed them under extreme pressure and they formed this mineral"
De Beers has entered the chat
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If a beaver constructed and detonated the nuke, it'd still just be natural though.
I doubt many people would think that was natural and if the beaver wasn't killed outright for acting so unnaturally it'd probably spend the rest of its life in a lab being researched.
1 reply →
Those industrious bastards need to be stopped before they get their paws on The Bomb.
How do we know the quasicrystals in the meteorite fragments are naturally occurring, and weren't created by nuclear detonations on an alien planet, then blasted off into space when an asteroid hit the site? Or perhaps the nuclear explosion was tested on an asteroid rather than a planet.
We’re a product of nature, it’s mistaken to believe we are above nature or that nuclear weapons aren’t also part of nature.
We’re also very much dependent on nature and natural forces.
So everything we do is, even if many steps removed, still an act of nature.
With the influence of humans: artificial.
Without the influence of humans: natural.
There’s a useful definition for you. Otherwise according to your definition the term “natural” is completely meaningless and serves no purpose.
7 replies →
Diamonds are also product of nature, but when we grow them in a lab they aren't often considered to be "naturally formed". It's just that the lab we used in this instance was part of the Jornada del Muerto.
3 replies →
This is a valid argument, albeit a pointless one.
We use the term natural specifically to distinguish between the.. natural and artificial.
A term like that is necessary.
2 replies →
One language usage question, and one content question:
"Melted sand"?? Isn't it "molten sand"? Is my hunch completely wrong, or is the author not a native speaker? Neither am I, but melted sand sounds so weird to my ears.
Isn't seconds kinda like ages at that scale? Atoms needing longer than seconds to arrange under super high pressure sounds also dubious? But I am no expert in that area.
To my ears “Molten” would imply that the sand is currently in liquid form. The sense ”melted” is used here, as having been melted, seems right. You melt sand to get molten sand, right?
"Melted sand" sounds strange because English already has a word for that: "glass".
2 replies →
"Molten" to me implies it is still liquid. Molten salt reactors, molten magma from a volcano, molten sand, molten steel, dipping something into molten cheese. All fluid.
If I was to nitpick, "melted" is kind of inaccurate and not entirely natural in this context. Technically, molten sand is also melted sand, because that's how you get it to that state? Usually, you'd hear about solidified magma, crystalized sand, cast iron, air-cast steel, unevenly settled corium... to make a better point on how it turned back into a solid and what to expect from it - something like "The molten sand crystalized into an unusual structure" would be clearer.
I'd usually rather hear "melted" if it is important to note that this had a phase change and back. Plastic on an electrical device may look melted, indicating heat. A hardened steel part may look melted, which may damage the hardening. Rubber on a hydraulic line may look melted, also indicating heat. A plastic container looking melted in the context of chemicals may indicate some compromise.
Now the words sound weird in my head. Thank you.
The sand melted, yielding a type of glass. Melt emphasizes a change.
It’s being used as a participial adjective here. I don’t think there’s much semantic nuance in the distinction between “melted” and “molten.” It comes down to common usage. “Molten sand” sounds more suitable to my ears, but “melted butter” also sounds better than “molten butter.” Odd, I think it’s part of a trend to replace the use of the past participle in some adjectival contexts. Maybe melted/molten is just an incomplete transition.
I think it's "molten" while it is still liquid but not once it crystalizes; at that point it's "melted"
Think of dropping a water balloon onto a pin. It pops instantly, but the water (like the temperature and overpressure) takes a while to dissipate into a puddle.
Sounds like the plot of a B movie...
Something like this came up in Robert R. McCammon's 1987 book Swan Song[1], one of the first novels to win the Bram Stoker award[2] for Best Novel (alongside Stephen King's Misery that year).
One of the survivors finds a glass ring (something like trinitite) among the post-nuclear-blast rubble of Saks Fifth Avenue[3] in New York and sees visions of the future (or something) through it.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swan_Song_(McCammon_novel) [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bram_Stoker_Award#External_lin... [3] my memories of this book may be embellishing this a bit....
Swan Song, coincidentally, is getting a pilot as a TV series. I'm not sure if it's gotten stuck in development hell or if it's actually going somewhere, it's only been 18 months or so since screenwriting started.
Interesting! Is it any good? Did it age well?
For God's sake man! You must learn to shield your thoughts from the crystals!
Found footage movie, combining Trinity Test and Philadelphia Experiment maybe? I think it has legs
The video game S.T.A.L.K.E.R is happening in the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone, an area filled with super natural anomalies and artifacts due to the radiation. A legend/rumor says that there is a special crystal granting any wish at the center of the zone, inside the power plant's sarcophagus. The existence of the crystal can't be verified because a cultist faction, The monolith, is preventing anyone to reach the center.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.T.A.L.K.E.R.:_Shadow_of_Cher...
…or basically the plot of twin peaks
Or the start of a new cult?
Which could also result in a B movie, I guess.
While the news is interesting in itself, I found the lack of illustrations disappointing.
When discussing new novel molecular structures, one would think providing a concrete visuals of what they look like more interesting than human-scale photos of materials containing them?
The second image from the article looks like caelid map from elden ring
Oxen Free prequel incoming
Its not “where is the crystal” its “when is the crystal”
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