Comment by simonask
7 hours ago
The point I'm getting at is that your definition of "simple" (a word that should be banned among programmers) is not useful, if it is even meaningful.
The brainfuck example is "simpler": Only 8 kinds of tokens! Not really useful, though.
The cognitive load of _actually delivering software_ written in C is immensely greater than doing so with Swift, or Rust, or Python, or Java, even Zig, despite all of those leveraging much heavier machinery in order to deliver a friendlier abstract model for you to program against.
The tragedy of C is that, in addition only delivering very baseline abstraction tools, it also adds its own set of seemingly arbitrary rules and requirements that come from nowhere but the C standard. Fictitious limitations to suit a bygone era. The abstract model of C is fine in some places, but definitely not fine in other places, and my hypothesis is that most UB in practice comes from a mismatch between programmer intuitions and C's idiosyncracies.
Calling something "simple" to use and learn is a valid use of the word, sorry. Not going to stop doing that.
> The cognitive load of _actually delivering software_ written in C is immensely greater than doing so with Swift, or Rust, or Python, or Java, even Zig, despite all of those leveraging much heavier machinery in order to deliver a friendlier abstract model for you to program against
Sorry, I couldn't disagree more.
I find the simplicity of C to be elegant. You know the rules; it's like the entire C language is the 1-page summary of the encyclopaedia of C++ or Swift or Java, or (insert more-modern language here). The key to working well in C is in defining modular code with well-understood interfaces. I've got 40 years of programming in C so far, and the nightmare stories ran out after the first few years. Programming discipline is a thing.
Similarly, ObjC is a far superior, much simpler, object-oriented language than C++, there's about 15 different things over C, and you know the language. Template metaprogramming. Phooey! You'll still have to learn object-orientated programming semantics, but it's a "simple" language.
BTW: If you think the brainfuck language example is in any way easier to understand than the C one, I think you might need medication. /j
> I've got 40 years of programming in C so far, and the nightmare stories ran out after the first few years.
You need to find something more interesting to do ;)
Oh, I do. I'm building a two-story 1000 sq.ft garage right now - more workshop than garage tbh [1], I've just built a roll-off-roof observatory [2], the currently empty pad behind it is for a radio-telescope, last set up in London [3], still needs to be assembled in the new house. Right now I'm into the fun stuff of automating everything in the observatory. I've also recently taken up archery, and I'm enjoying that. I've written (well Claude has) an optimising compiler for a memory-managing language for the 6502 [4], but I'm just instrumenting (this bit is me) the IR so it can also target the M chip on my Mac. Eventually it'll also target m68k so I can bring up the Atari ST on the FPGA that is currently just emulating the atari 8-bit (I have a 120MHz 6502 at the moment :). The 'x' in 'xt' is from 'atari Xl' and the 't' is from 'atari sT'. The compiler is called 'xtc'. Both will run MiNT and the blitter on the FPGA is designed to integrate well with GEM, the graphics environment on the ST - even the XL version will have a graphical UI running at 1080p :)
So I have a few things to keep me busy right now.
1: http://0x0000ff.co.uk/img/garage/garage-layout.png
2: http://0x0000ff.co.uk/img/observatory/roll-off-roof-observat...
3: http://0x0000ff.co.uk/img/dish/dish.jpg
4: http://atari-xt.com/