Comment by stephc_int13
4 hours ago
As a C programmer, I find this kind of bad faith article very irritating.
Yes, the standard library is bad. This is by far the worst part of the C legacy. But it is not that hard to write your own.
String functions like this are not difficult at all, and you can use better naming and semantics, write faster code etc.
C is not the C standard library, ffs.
I don't think it's in bad faith.
The distinction between a language and its standard library gets blurry even in theory, and in practice they're nearly inseparable. If a language's standard library has four ways of doing almost the same thing, and they're all fundamentally broken, that's a problem.
If you read the other articles by the same author on his blog, you'll see that he has some strong and weird opinions about C and UB.
Complete BS in my opinion.
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Exactly. A wrapper that handles all of the edge cases properly and gives proper reporting just gets added to your own library of functions and the devs get used to using it. Much like the code for abstract data types like lists/hashmaps/etc which neither C nor the standard libraries provide.
Bonus points for having bespoke linting rules to point out the use of known “bad” functions.
In one old project we went through and replaced all instances of sprintf() with snprintf() or equivalent. Once we were happy that we’d got every occurrence we could then add lint rules to flag up any new use of sprintf() so that devs didn’t introduce new possible problems into the code.
(Obviously you can still introduce plenty of problems with snprintf() but we learned to give that more scrutiny.)
While snprintf() is better than sprintf(), I find that it's easy for people to not check if the return value is bigger than the provided size. Sure, it prevents a buffer overflow, but there could still be a string truncation problem.
Similar to how strlcpy() is not a slam dunk fix to the strcpy() problem.
That's partly the point.
If someone uses sprintf() you have to go faffing around to check whether they've thought about the destination buffer size. The size of the structure may be buried far away through several layers of other APIs/etc.
Using snprintf() doesn't solve this in any way, but checking whether the new use of snprintf() checks the return value is relatively simple. Again, there's still no guarantee that there aren't other problems with snprintf() but, in our experience, we found that once people were forced to use it over sprintf() and had things checked in PR reviews we found that the number of instances of misuse dropped dramatically.
It wasn't the switch of functions that reduced the number of problems we saw, but the outright banning of the known footgun `sprintf()` and the careful auditing and replacement of it with `snprintf()` that served as a whole load of reference copies for how to use it. We spread the work of replacing `sprintf()` around the team so that everyone got to do some of the switches and everyone got to review the changes. And we found a whole load of possible problems (most of which were very unlikely to ever lead to a crash or corruption.)
The same would apply if you picked any other known footgun and did similar refactoring/rewrites/auditing/etc.
Anyway, I haven't done C commercially/professionally for about 5 years now. I do miss it though.
> like lists/hashmaps/etc which neither C nor the standard libraries provide
There is a hashmap implementation though: https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man3/hsearch.3.html
“One hashmap for your entire program” is not generally what people mean when they want a hashmap.
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Sure there's an implementation, but like the integer comparison functions that sparked this thread there are some severe limitations with the implementation.
(In fact, looking at it again, I assume I'd purposely purged it from my memory given how terrible it is.)
The non-extensible nature is the biggest one. There are plenty of times when the maximum number of elements needed to be stored will be known in advance. (See the note about hcreate().)
Secondly the hserach() implementation requires the keys to be NUL terminated strings since "the same key" is determined using strcmp(). Good luck if you want to use a number, pointer, arbitrary structure or anything else as a key.
Any reasonable hash table implementation would not have either of these limitations.
Maybe I needed to say:
> > like lists/hashmaps/etc which neither C nor the standard libraries provide
... reasonable implementations of.
The thing I find irritating is all the folks who say C is broken because it’s not a write once run anywhere language like JavaScript or python. Part of the deal has always been that the programmer needs to understand the target platform and the target compiler’s behavior.
Write once run anywhere? But C already is a "write once run anywhere" language! Though, you usually have to recompile first :)
The criticisms related to UB are not about understanding the target platform and the target compiler's behavior. Undefined Behavior is not the same thing as Implementation-defined Behavior, and lots of folks (including me) would be satisfied with reclassifying chunks of UB as the latter.
The behavior of the target platform isn't really the issue. C23 mandates two's complement for signed integers. Most hardware wraps on overflow, but that literally doesn't matter. The standard says a program exhibiting signed overflow is undefined, period.
In practice, UB rules mean the compiler is free to remove checks for signed overflow/underflow, checks for null pointers, etc. This can and does happen. Man, just a few weeks ago, I just had to deal with a crash in a C program that turned out to be due to the compiler removing a null check. That was a painful one.
The point of this post, though, is even something as simple as "give me this string as an integer" doesn't have an answer that doesn't come with "are you OK with this best effort parse under these edge cases? Oh and we use this number as error, so you can't parse that".
Like… edge cases? It's parsing a number! We're not talking about I/O on hard vs soft intr NFS mounts, here. There's a right answer.
strlen(), on valid null terminated strings, doesn't come with caveats like "oh we can't measure strings of length 99".
But sure, C is turing complete. It is possible to solve any problem a turing machine can solve.
> understand the target platform and the target compiler’s behavior.
This is neither. This is purely the language.
isn't the whole point of C that it's portable assembly though? needing to understand the target platform/compiler's behavior to write correct code seems to cut against that claim quite a bit.
No. What gives that idea? The language doesn't even fix the data size of its primary numerical type. No way anyone thought that was portable.
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The people downvoting you are probably not C programmers and love to hate C.
I guess trying to write in Rust makes them irritable.