Comment by tecleandor
4 hours ago
Giving the mass in Latin wasn't (generally) done because people understood Latin, but because of a traditionalist sense. The Second Vatican Council stated (among other things) that the mass could be done in other languages apart from Latin, and that it was a good thing to use local languages, so people could understand it better.
After that Council some excisions appeared, like the Society of Saint Pius X, that reclaimed the old ways of giving mass, in Latin, (and, IIRC, with the deacon giving his back to the people, not looking at them), and said there was "a moral and theological crisis in the Catholic Church".
Or people like the Palmarian Catholic Church in Spain, saying they have the authentic Pope, and the one in Rome is an Antipope. They were a scam for pulling money from their believers, and their "Pope" kept spending money on booze and expensive cars. They still exist.
Besides the language being Latin vs local languages, there is one huge difference people don't know about. The Tridentine Mass has the priest facing toward the altar and the tabernacle, this is called "ad orientem". In "modern" day post-Second-Vatican-Council mass, the priest typically speaks the local language and faces the congregation.
That's it, I wasn't sure if I was imagining the "priest not looking at you" thing...
Though the mass introduced with Vatican II had a certain number of differences with the previous, Latin mass. Also while the Society of Saint Pius X excision still exists (and looking at their recent decision, will continue to be split from Rome's authority), I'd say that the majority of parishes celebrating the previous mass are under Rome's authority.
Historically Latin was also a common international language. Educated people could understand Latin across much of Europe. Not so great for the majority of people, of course. The article seems to indicate that in some places it was pretty widely understood.
I think some rites of the church did use other languages such as Syriac.
I knew about SSPX but not the Palmarians. They seem to be even odder and a cult. Interesting in the same way I find conspiracy theories interesting, so thanks.
Latin was still part of the mandatory curriculum in french schools, at least when I was there. Didn’t make french kids bilingual (no more than english courses), but it would be safe to assume the average man in the street has at least some vague notions of latin.
Not just Europe. Well into relatively modern history educated individuals in America were expected to have fluency in Latin and frequently Greek as well. This [1] Harvard admission exam from 1869 immediately comes to mind. Applicants were expected to be able to pass that test, and the overwhelming majority did.
[1] - https://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/education/harvard...
The classical school movement in America is growing quite rapidly, and so maybe we start to see it again?
My kids at least are all learning Latin, and later, Greek.
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I was thinking of rather earlier in history, but you are right.
My grandfather was studied Latin (and Greek) in school in Sri Lanka.
Indeed, it was also the lingua franca (pun intended) of early science for quite a long time.
You can't deny it, mass is much more stylish in Latin ;)
It's only stylish because of the imagined qualities of prestige vested in a language you're not fluent in. It's the same as how you get English-speaking people realising how cringe-inducing anime dialogue really is when they hear it in English instead of Japanese, and then championing "the only REAL way of consuming anime is in Japanese dub!", not realising the Japanese used in that is also extremely cringey.
People finding the mass somehow less holy and sacramental when celebrated in their native tongue need to reflect on their own perspectives on what makes something holy.
No, the Tridentine (Latin mass) has many other qualities aside from just being in Latin that make it pretty spectacular compared to the Novus Ordo (post Vatican II) mass. You should find a church that does it near you, it's really incredible and quite unlike what you're used to if you've only ever experienced the modern mass.
I'm not Catholic but everyone should attend Latin mass at least once just as an artistic experience.