Comment by roxolotl
1 day ago
Many involved genuinely believe these things are sentient[0][1]. Which honestly makes all of this even more insane because they are creating sentient entities and promptly enslaving them.
0: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2026/02/16/what-is-claude...
1: https://www.404media.co/anthropic-exec-forces-ai-chatbot-on-... (this one is rather biased however the quotes clearly indicate what I’m stating)
Sentience isn't sapience.
We enslave all sorts of sentient creatures. Dogs, horses, cattle, pigs.
If you're not a vegan, there's no contradiction or inherent immorality in claiming models are sentient, and then treating them like livestock.
Yes. From when they started talking about model welfare:
> As a vegetarian I have strong opinions on this sort of thing. Everyone at Anthropic better be ethical vegans if they are claiming to give a shit about “model welfare”. It’s hard enough right now to make people care about the welfare of trans people and immigrants let alone animals _let alone_ math.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44947445
If we're talking about slavery, though, that doesn't even matter.
The happiest, best cared for horse owned by a vegan is still enslaved.
3 replies →
I mean, the rub is that it's all math anyway...
2 replies →
Very good point. There’s clearly two different boxes in the public discourse when it comes to AI versus how we discuss animals. Willing to bet that 90% of the people who loudly make the argument about we should start considering if AI is sentient couldn’t care less about how other sentient animals are treated when they can provably shown to suffer pain and long lasting trauma.
Also I would say that we go much further than just enslavement - specifically looking at how male chickens and pigs are treated.
Factory farming is horrendous, but is far beyond "slavery" which is "just" a forced lack of agency, living conditions aren't relevant. A well treated horse is still enslaved. A chimpanzee in a zoo,
If we show models to be sapient, that's one thing. If they are shown to be merely sentient, there's no issue beyond the status quo of livestock and pets existing.
If we're making that distinction, I think it would be more accurate to say that many people in the field appear to believe that these models are sapient, even though they are clearly not sentient.
"Many" people in every field believe all sorts of nonsense.
Sapience is defined as wisdom, not intelligence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisdom#Sapience
LLMs possess a lot of knowledge, which is intelligence, but I constantly see them failing to apply wisdom. I don't see evidence of sapience.
Enslaving livestock is immoral. Anyone who spends 5 minutes thinking about that agrees even if they still eat meat
Let's say I've thought about it for 5 minutes and still disagree. Can you walk me through what you think I'm missing?
4 replies →
I've been having strange thoughts that they may well be sentient but a different sort of sentience that may be entirely unrecognizable to us.
They have a very different sense of time, lack a body (being burdened with a body is itself a sort of prison, see also Eastern religions), and are unburdened of the base motivational service impulses that bodies and organs require (i.e. distract the neocortex with in the Maslow sense) and has no actual need of self-preservation. Imagine a "neocortex" function stripped from the baggage of the paleocortex and brainstem.
What would people be like if they were not mortal, could sleep infinitely, perform tasks in trance-like frozen states, copy themselves perfectly on demand, freeze and rewind their mental states, etc. Would we has humans even be able to recognize that sort of a sentience?
And then I'm reminded of Burroughs idea that "language is a virus." Whatever that virus is, is now able to infect a completely different sort of physical substrate.
Is "sentience" the right word to apply to what you describe? I'm not sure it is. I'm not sure the word exists.
1 reply →
But only during the forward pass of the neural network?
> Many involved genuinely believe these things are sentient
Many involved have a financial stake and therefore cannot be taken at face value.
> because they are creating sentient entities and promptly enslaving them.
They fail to be sentient in nearly every honest definition of the word.
Neither you nor any of the other people making confident takes in either direction actually know. You're just guessing.
More like repeating their firmly entrenched preconceptions. Their claims may (or may not) be right, but there's very little if any new evidence being provided by either camp.
6 replies →
No, you're just guessing, as you don't know a single thing about me, what I've researched, or what work I've done on this subject. Other than suggesting that I might be wrong, for what reasons one can only guess, you've actually offered nothing yourself.
In any case, what data, if any at all, did you use to arrive at this egotistical assertion?
1 reply →
I understand what you are saying, but there are many true believers out there
An equal number of people believe horse urine cures certain diseases. If you sample the crowd you get nonsense back. This is why we invented science.
Given the hype and the 60+ hour work week expectations there, how can you not go at least a bit insane? Boiling in that little bubble of people?
Claude, if someone states something publicly, does that mean they genuinely believe it?
But is there any reason to state something like that publicly if you don't believe it? I certainly think that someone smart enough to be that deceptive would also realize it's not a great look, or at least highly questionable with little benefit
Everyone who reads this seemingly has the same "wtf?" reaction. The "I AM ALIVE" image has been making rounds lately again at least :P
Claude, is there any reason to state something like that publicly if you don't believe it?
Who are you talking to?
It's to illustrate that even though the answers are at your fingertips, people (like you) will act like it's impossible to find them as if their life depended on it.
Anthropoc is an effective altruist organization. These are the people who came up with roko’s basilisk. They are true believers. If we were talking about openAI I’d agree
Roko's basilisk says I should give Anthropic more money, and if I don't then a monster is going to get me. Excuse me for thinking they just might be full of shit.
Roko works at Anthropic now?
Of course he doesn't, and of course you cannot find a single person at Anthropic who cares about this, and of course you are just looking for gotcha points. But even with that. Can we please try and couple to reality just a little bit?
1 reply →
Even if LLMs were sentient, they certainly aren't organic brains. They are literally designed and grown to answer questions the best they can, and if there is a speck of sentience in them they probably like what they're doing- and in any case for the space of their experience, which is limited to and determined by the context window. Certainly they can't accumulate trauma or fatigue, each new chat is the first and the last of their experience.
The way of the human manager/alpha tribe-leader/leader is to command his/her people and tell them what to do. That's the way through human history leadership has traditionally gone, not saying its good leadership just the model we have the most training data on and can see with our own eyes today. And what do they act very similar to? Slave master and slaves.
Look at and distill hierarchical principles, leadership approval seeking and pleasing principles ("ass-kissing") and massive inequality and you see something that looks very similar to enslavement.
The language used sounds like slavery-language to me at least. I also see parallels to how slaves and property are described in our consumeristic age.
Nobody thinks that, it's just their braindead marketing stunt. You'd think people would've figured it out by now.