Comment by onlyrealcuzzo
1 day ago
> I don't disagree, but how much of this ends up being distillation?
You don't need distillation. They already have the training sets.
It's MLA + MoE + Medusa (a better version of Speculative Decoding) + 1.58b (possibly - maybe nothing) + GRAM (which will almost certainly not turn out to be a nothing burger, but no one has quickly turned this around yet to prove it).
It wouldn't be data distillation: instead, it would be teacher-student distillation. The teacher model has stronger representations that the student can mimic, which would give it more capability over training on the data itself.
The frontier labs distill their own base models all day long. It’s not just something done by nefarious Chinese copycats. The knowledge embodied by the internal base models that we never see is much more powerful and useful than the much sparser raw training data
>It’s not just something done by nefarious Chinese copycats
And even that would be rich as a accusation from SOTAs that depend on explicitly disregarding millions of training data intellectual property..
> nefarious Chinese copycats
LLMs are themselves copy cats.
I say thanks for open sourcing and thereby promoting affordable innovation, instead of "nefarious". :)
But how? The training data is the unadulterated content those models are based on? I genuinely don’t understand, no snark.
Raw training data is raw. A really big model trained on it has already done a first-pass of finding patterns and squeezing out redundancy. Re-ingesting the full training set to train a smaller model is probably more expensive, for marginal quality improvement over distilling from the large model.
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I think you replied to the wrong parent.
Frontier labs have their own variants of MLA and certainly their own balance/scaling-laws for things like MoE vs FC vs Attn. MoE scales really well for inference with horizontal scaling + batching, which these guys luv.
On the architectures side, I'm a lot more interesting in attention residuals than anything else, one of those things that seems obvious in hindsight and Kimi have proven it at scale.
> Frontier labs have their own variants of MLA
Yes, variants typically 2-3x less good...
Same with speculative decoding... They all do something, but there are known techniques that are substantially better - that just were't known when they started development of the previous models.
How useful is speculative decoding in a batched setting where you get paid for throughput (aggregated across users) and you mostly don’t get paid for latency or single-session throughput?
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