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Comment by librasteve

20 hours ago

There has been some speculation about porting the Raku backend (Meta-Object Aware Runtime Virtual Machine - MOARVM)from C to Zig. For example the wider set of Zig Hash options could be a big optimization.

Since you ask, the front end is self hosting in NQP and with the ripening RakuAST project increasingly in Raku Grammars. The new AST (6.e.PREVIEW) will bring much better introspection and high level optimization handles. So the potential to refactor/rewrite the VM for substantial speed gains is wide open.

Anyway those with skills and interest are welcome to join the -Ofun at https://raku.org/community

9 comments

librasteve

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GuB-42  17 hours ago

I am following Raku and Zig from afar, and they both share similarities in that both languages are "optimized for fun" in a way, so no surprize that they come together.

Zig focus on compilation speed and give developers control (even more so than C). Raku, as a Perl descendant is a giant toybox and there is no one telling you not to use them. Both have in common that they give a lot of freedom to developers, which is really enjoyable. They also have in common that they are not very mature and have a limited market share and fine with it, and a community that looks genuinely nice.

The opposite of Rust. The language has the "bondage and discipline" philosophy, kind of like ADA, the idea being that it does everything it can to stop you from making mistakes. There is a lot of value in that, but it is not particularly fun. Its community was similarly defined by rules, its code of conduct was infamous, again, it serves a purpose but to me, putting the rules forward doesn't make the community look like a fun place to be. And there is the evangelism, the Rust community is aggressive "rewrite it in Rust!", "no memory unsafe languages!", etc... I have never seen such attitude from the Zig community. Sure they love their language and will tell you it is the best in the world, but they will not say that you are wrong for not using it. As for Raku, they don't seem to care that no one else use their language, they just hope it will happen eventually if they continue going forward.

  • librasteve  5 hours ago

    lol … fwiw we are as bemused by the situation as anyone (well, I am, I can’t really speak for anyone else). My take is that Raku (née perl6) got the worst of all worlds … divided the perl community, was 15 years in the making, got dragged into the reputational suction as the unreconstructed perl Titanic sank. All the same, it’s a wonderful reimagining of all the great things of perl from all the community RFPs and the genius of Larry and Damian and co and fixes most of the negatives and is now there and steadily improving and what’s not to like!

  • spease  13 hours ago

    > the Rust community is aggressive "rewrite it in Rust!", "no memory unsafe languages!"

    This is more of a meme than reality at this point.

    • pjmlp  9 hours ago

      Does not help the regulator posts on HN about having rewriten known projects into Rust, and since we are on a Zig thread, Bun.

      1 reply →

AndyKelley  16 hours ago

If you decide to try this, feel free to share your progress and struggles on IRC, ziggit, or ZSF zulip. Plenty of people would be interested in helping out.

Good luck and happy hacking!

  • librasteve  5 hours ago

    thanks! I have done a bit of work on Raku + Polars (ie the Pandas rewrite in Rust). This has been hampered by Rust lack of a binary FFI - so it has ended up running into unsafe keyhole surgery territory. My current feel is that we would need to move down to Apache Arrow and build a bunch of FFI / MOARMVM level scaffolding to keep it fast. Maybe take a look at COW at the same time.

    Is any of that already lying around in Zig?