If you are growing revenue at a high rate then taking profit is a misallocation of resources. That is short-term thinking. It is much better to reinvest in revenue growth.
You can take small profit now or much larger profit later. Insisting that companies need to be profitable even when growing revenue rapidly is failing the marshmallow test.
But we don't have visibility on the COGS until they IPO and file, right? So where is all this premature judgement coming from about their unit economics?
(not pointing the finger only at you, at least you identified that gross margins is the correct thing to look at rather than net profit!)
Inference has dropped by like 75% from a year ago. While anthropic does offer more tokens now for the same money, the value of the business is based on an expectation of future profits. There are dozens, if not hundreds of examples of companies being valued this way.
That's not how classical valuations worked though. I was taught the rough shorthand for valuing a company was profits / real_interest_rate, treating the company like a perpetuity. Revenue ain't in it. Now we have a bunch of "We'll make it up on volume companies!" like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXDxNCzUspM
> Doesn't inference have very good profit margins* but all the losses come from training?
There is no source for this. Amodei just pulled a hypothetical explicitly distanced from Anthropic out of his ass and kickstarted some citogenesis when people half-remembered that number and started quoting it as truth.
The only material claim of Anthropic is that they would "turn an operating profit of $559 million in the June quarter ... The company might not remain profitable for the full year as it plans spending increases due to its vast computing needs." with an explicit disclaimer that: "It is unclear what accounting methods Anthropic has used to book revenue and costs, as the company isn’t yet required to follow the financial-reporting requirements of a public company."
This is the exact same quarter where xAI is giving them deeply discounted compute, as such the numbers cannot be projected out to the later quarters once Anthropic has to actually pay xAI for the compute they use.
Finally, there's the reality that were the revenue numbers any good, Anthropic would just publish them and leapfrog OpenAI. That they do not provide clear GAAP numbers suggests the numbers are bad.
If you are growing revenue at a high rate then taking profit is a misallocation of resources. That is short-term thinking. It is much better to reinvest in revenue growth.
You can take small profit now or much larger profit later. Insisting that companies need to be profitable even when growing revenue rapidly is failing the marshmallow test.
The point is that the unit economics are way worse because inference is expensive. Cost of goods sold matters, even if you're reinvesting profits.
But we don't have visibility on the COGS until they IPO and file, right? So where is all this premature judgement coming from about their unit economics?
(not pointing the finger only at you, at least you identified that gross margins is the correct thing to look at rather than net profit!)
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Anthropic is not MoviePass. Its unit economics will be fine after it decides to optimize for profitability.
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Inference has dropped by like 75% from a year ago. While anthropic does offer more tokens now for the same money, the value of the business is based on an expectation of future profits. There are dozens, if not hundreds of examples of companies being valued this way.
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I guess net isn't the relevant measure, but what are the unit economics? Are they actually making money selling tokens?
on the API, their margins are very high
That's not how classical valuations worked though. I was taught the rough shorthand for valuing a company was profits / real_interest_rate, treating the company like a perpetuity. Revenue ain't in it. Now we have a bunch of "We'll make it up on volume companies!" like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXDxNCzUspM
no, it is discounted expected future cash flows
> That is short-term thinking.
Then why IPO? Isn't that even shorter term thinking?
Maybe they are struggling to put together money for datacenter buildout (Capex).
Please don't ask those rational questions, revenue is all that maters.
While good to ask, that is less relevant so long as they can maintain runway.
Doesn't inference have very good profit margins* but all the losses come from training?
* For now, when they don't have to compete much against companies like DeepSeek who supplies inference at 1/10th of the cost
> Doesn't inference have very good profit margins* but all the losses come from training?
There is no source for this. Amodei just pulled a hypothetical explicitly distanced from Anthropic out of his ass and kickstarted some citogenesis when people half-remembered that number and started quoting it as truth.
The only material claim of Anthropic is that they would "turn an operating profit of $559 million in the June quarter ... The company might not remain profitable for the full year as it plans spending increases due to its vast computing needs." with an explicit disclaimer that: "It is unclear what accounting methods Anthropic has used to book revenue and costs, as the company isn’t yet required to follow the financial-reporting requirements of a public company."
https://www.wsj.com/tech/ai/mind-blowing-growth-is-about-to-...
This is the exact same quarter where xAI is giving them deeply discounted compute, as such the numbers cannot be projected out to the later quarters once Anthropic has to actually pay xAI for the compute they use.
Finally, there's the reality that were the revenue numbers any good, Anthropic would just publish them and leapfrog OpenAI. That they do not provide clear GAAP numbers suggests the numbers are bad.
They reported 559 million in Q2 of this year. OpenAI on the other hand, is nowhere near this.
because of the mutual sweetheart deal with SpaceX
SpaceX gave em discount for the pre IPO quarter so they can show profit
Anthropic signed a deal to lease compute that is the bulk of SpaceX revenue
and i think here lies the chess move by Elon
he's trying to steal OpenAI's limelight and shit on their road show
I'm actually quite surprised how much money Anthropic pulls
Also surprised that OpenAI is not pulling as much as I thought
All in all it looks like OpenAI is in a bit of a vulnerable position.
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Not using GAAP, so this is just PR for them.
I suspect the answer is: in the future after Moore's law somehow inevitably does its thing.
That has worked in the past for tech infrastructure, so there is clearly a gamble that it does that again here.
These AI companies will be able to jack prices way way up once companies and users are fully addicted to doing everything with their AI.