Comment by veber-alex
4 hours ago
Yep.
One time my manager did a hour long lecture for our team on how personal growth is important and that we all should expand our horizons and learn new stuff.
When I tried to reserve 2 hours A WEEK for studying tasks I got push back that I should do it on my own time. It was a complete joke.
This sounds like the "everything you create in your own time is company property since we cannot distinguish if what you do in your own time isn't company related" clause in some contracts. Under no circumstance is it actable where I live, but it can sure scare the hell out of people and presents a line of thought. Yes, some companies think they can own copyright on the things you write at home.
I call that the "shower clause," because the company claims ownership of any ideas you come up with, in the shower.
I think, like noncompetes, there's limits to how far the company can actually enforce it, but they bank on the fact that they have lawyers on permanent retainer, and you don't. Even standing up for your rights, against blatant corporate overreach, is expensive.
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I always ask companies to remove that clause from contracts, I think all offers I've ever got had that clause, but also 100% removed it on request.
Interesting. I've always asked, too, and 0% were willing to make any changes to their policies. I suppose it has a lot to do with the size of the company and your relative bargaining power.
If my contract says that I must be available immediately at any time, do I have ANY personal time? Or is all of my time their time too?
Absolutely. Your personal time is that time which, in retrospect, the company didn't need you for. It's strictly a backward-looking definition.
In the US, the enforceability of that sort of thing depends on the state. Generally, if that state enforces non-competes (other than for selling the business, or managerial staff), then it most likely enforces "you're salaried, so everything you invent belongs to us".
The legal term to search is "work for hire".
> When I tried to reserve 2 hours A WEEK for studying tasks
I've never understood why employees push for official approval like this. It's not surprising you don't get officially dedicated "study time". The vast majority of programmers aren't hourly anyway, so officially sanctioned study hours doesn't even fit in with how work is prioritized. Not to mention the optics look terrible if your team is ever behind your manager is now in the awkward position have having "non-work" on record as part of what you're getting paid for.
Just bring your book with you and read during slow period, when a job is running, model training etc. You're not hourly anyway, so in theory any non-project time is your time anyway.
I've never had official permission to study at work about I've also never had any problem studying at work. If you're shipping consistently and high quality nobody is going to care if you're occasionally reading through a book chapter or watching a lecture online.
My last employer had a monthly Day of Learning where you could study whatever you want (so long as you could sort of tie it back to work). It was great. They’d organize presentations from employees but you could spend the whole day essentially however you wanted.
> If you're shipping consistently and high quality nobody is going to care if you're occasionally reading through a book chapter or watching a lecture online.
Or if they do, it's a toxic workplace.
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This is when I would look up the nearest course for the subject that the job would want me to study, including the cost, time and travel distance. Talk is always much cheaper than the real thing.
I wonder what happens when you have kids and you can no longer spend your free time to keep learning new things that your company wants you to know.
(Just kidding, I know what happens... they will fire you and hire someone who doesn't have kids.)
> (Just kidding, I know what happens... they will fire you and hire someone who doesn't have kids.)
And then the boss will blame young people for collapsing the demography and endangering the country.
You either fall behind/into a rut, or like you said, get let go. It’s scary
I'm experiencing a similar thing- company pushes online lectures but don't even think about putting them on the sprint board.