Comment by spott

5 hours ago

This is just early fusion basically.

FAIR did this 2 years ago now: https://arxiv.org/abs/2405.09818

I've been waiting for something like this to be released since then.

The annoying thing is that chameleon was multi-modal out based on the same principles, but this model is just inputs... (I'm curious how they did pre-training without having multi-modal outputs as well. I wonder if they just chopped them off rather than support image output).

2 comments

spott

ahmadyan 1 hour ago

Some of the FAIR people moved to Thinky, and they also started doing encoder-free MM-LLMs. Now Google. This seems to becoming a trend working at small scale, but the difficult part is scaling.

Standard approach for training MM-LLMs is we train the encoder first, there are O(2-10B) good images on the internet, so encoder needs to see each image O(10-100) times, that is O(100T) tokens, which is more than the entire pre-training budget for most runs. That is the reason we train the encoder separately (smaller model, 2B active vs 30B or 200B active LLM); there is nothing magical about training the encoder and LLM together, it is just more token-efficient to train the image modality first.

santiagobasulto 3 hours ago

I don't think it's the same. It's a similar concept, but Gemma is using just a linear projection, which I assume is a lot faster. The developer guide has more details: https://developers.googleblog.com/gemma-4-12b-the-developer-...

    Vision embedder (35M parameters): Replaces the 27 vision transformer layers of the other medium-sized Gemma 4 models. Raw 48x48 pixel patches are projected to the LLM hidden dimension with a single matmul. A factorized coordinate lookup (X and Y matrices) attaches spatial location information directly to the input

the "single matmul" is the key here, I haven't tried it, but it's probably pretty fast and memory efficient.