Comment by lebovic
10 hours ago
I worked at Anthropic, and I wouldn't attribute much to the structure itself – so I'm wary of using it as a positive example here.
I do attribute a lot to specific people. Concretely, to much of the intitial team, who they recruited on the research/infra side, and some very close personal relationships within research/infra. That dynamic, paired with their unwillingness to accede to something against their values, is what I credit for some atypical decisions and outcomes [1].
Things regulary go "corrupt" in parts of the company; it's hard to scale without importing culture from big tech. Sometimes, the defense was ICs escalating issues, Dario talking to ICs, and then shaking things up.
But this process takes time, and it doesn't lead to a full reversal; a bad/misaligned hire has reverberating impacts. Many folks are still driven by values (even if their values are not your values!), but scaling dynamics seem to be evolving like any other org – just at a higher employee count and revenue numbers.
I do place trust in specific people who work at Anthropic, but I wouldn't place trust in Anthropic the organization. It's an organization that's wont to change, regardless of its structure.
Totally agree about the people. I've seen a bad hire blow up a 20 person startup. I've seen 5 person company excel since they worked more like 5x5 persons than 5 individuals.
Yeah, I generally dislike platitudes yet "one bad apple spoils the bunch" seems to apply more often than not sadly.
> scaling dynamics seem to be evolving like any other org – just at a higher employee count and revenue numbers.
I really wonder if it's possible to avoid these dynamics, even if you try really hard.
If not, it seems to me that goal alignment is the main benefit of a hypothetical lean AI company where the middle management is 1% people and 99% tokens. When most of your decision-making is not being siphoned by politics, your output scales far better with respect to input resources.
Your comment is very astute. A structure is like a shell. It can only protect what is within. It does not cause what's within to be vital, healthy, or unhealthy. But if you think that the courage that Dario has regularly shown would be possible with a conventional "best practices" structure, I think you're kidding yourself.
> But if you think that the courage that Dario has regularly shown would be possible with a conventional "best practices" structure, I think you're kidding yourself.
With respect to OP (who has a unique vantage from inside), I do agree with this on principle. When there are uncommon outcomes, there must be uncommon structure imho. A "good structure" is like oxygen, water, or peace: When it's well-maintained and well-distributed, one might not even notice it's there, nor spend much time being grateful for it. It's banal, but "what do you mean? isn't this just how things would always have been?" is both beautiful and tragic.
Imho if we could figure out how to have a "loud peace" (in all the ways that this might mean), we'd have figured out an important way of sustaining the world and ourselves.
The structure requires maintenance and that is done by an individual or individuals. The real reasons a good company stays good is because the leadership stays good. When the leadership begins to disengage or leaves or changes in some way then the structure will begin to break down. You can't fix it with a "better" structure. It will decay over time unless someone is actively maintaining it.
4 replies →
> If you think that the courage that Dario has regularly shown would be possible with a conventional "best practices" structure, I think you're kidding yourself.
Is there something that happened which you don't think would have come to pass with a standard PBC/C-Corp (without the LTBT)? I'm trying to think of one, but nothing is coming to mind.
I think the structure attracted many people to Anthropic (e.g. an RSP that could only be overridden by the LTBT), but I'm not sure it has demonstrated a practical impact.
As an aside, I think a lot about this problem too! But the answers that don't reduce to something like "the people, and the people to whom they give power" seem to break down when I look closely.
Do you think their dispute with the Department of Defense would have gone the same way? We didn't see that at OpenAI or Google.
(Although it does remind me a bit of Google pulling out of China back in the day.)
12 replies →
Were those upright people abducted by aliens when you started working with Palantir and the "DoW"?
Having values doesn't mean they're "the right" values nor the same as your values.
Regardless, it's still atypical in the context of an American company, and it can help explain the differences between Anthropic and its peers. That doesn't mean I agree with their decisions or that they're "the right" decisions, but I think it's a helpful framing in which to understand them.
Is “having values” just “stubborn” then?
2 replies →
What does ICs stand for?
Individual contributor; i.e. not a manager.
(This isn't a dig on managers; I've been one. But if a situation doesn't naturally escalate, that usually means a manager in the chain chose not to escalate it, and their reports have to go around them.)
Individual contributor? A nice way to say people who aren’t managers
Individual contributor(non-managers)
individual contributor