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Comment by reacharavindh

7 days ago

The fact that government agencies, particularly those that deal with international concerns like these are using non sovereign tech for communications is mind-blowing. They might as well use public gmail.. atleast it would be cheaper. If you want it not exposed directly, host it yourself and take measures to secure it for intended eyes only. This should be common sense.

It's mind blowing that government bureaucrats would be permitted to use commercial providers for official business at all. The provider being foreign is merely the cherry on top.

I was going to ask why something like mail.gov.nl doesn't exist but it turns out [0] (edit: wikipedia is full of lies) that they don't have a reserved second level domain for official government services to use? Is this really one of the countries pushing digital IDs?

> Official second-level domains do not exist.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.nl

  • Privatization: in much of the (neo)liberal West, it is seen as better to use commercial providers. They're supposed to be cheaper and better, because they're not using (union) civil service staff.

    Yes, this results in enshittification.

    • The thing that results in enshittification is market consolidation. Notice that Comcast sucks whereas there aren't a lot of complaints about Big Shampoo because that's a fairly competitive market.

      If the government needs trucks then they should just buy trucks, not build a factory to make trucks and then another factory to make lead acid batteries for the trucks and then start mining lead to make the batteries etc.

      At some point they have to interface with the market and you still have to solve the problem of keeping the market competitive and keeping the bidding process from being captured. If you're not doing those things then you're screwed either way; if you are doing them then it's better to just buy finished goods than to have civil servants manufacturing doorknobs and operating rubber tree plantations to make weather stripping.

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    • I'd understand contracting a commercial provider to run the government infra, with extensive contractual obligations surrounding exactly how data is to be handled. What's wild to me is turning government bureaucrats loose to send and receive likely very sensitive information using the third party provider of their choice.

I remember 15 years ago when our Minister of Foreign affairs was gleefully telling a gadget-vlogger about his personal setup where he was not using 'official email', but his own private Blackberry / iPhone (I forgot) and email for communicating all things. Out of 'frustration with how long it took for official IT to get things sorted'. Video is still online even: https://vimeo.com/13224190

I don't think Americans understand what US used to mean for the rest of the world.

America was supposed to be the next step of humanity, a new land stripped from the ills of the old world where you invest or you go to build things, where your past or identity wasn't the primary concern but your dreams your abilities were. It wasn't nationalistic place, it was open to all and pretty much it was the group work of humanity. When aliens arrive, they arrived to US and even if not, they certainly wanted to speak to the US president as the leader of humanity.

Unlike Europe it wasn't stuck into petty identity conflicts, unlike Russia or China it was governed by the law and the law would protect you from the sneaky politicians. Unlike Europe, US companies were fair businesses that could protect you the customer from bad things even if America developed European or Asian habits.

Why wouldn't you use anything from America? Americans don't understand how transactional they are becoming and that from now on they will need to perform. Like the Tesla boycott, suddenly Tesla had to price their vehicles to match the functionality they provide in order to be able to sell cars again.

Currently the US tech tools are better as they were refined for decades with huge resources and user bases, so it is hard to switch away and at this time it's the perception of risk and US no longer being cool are what pushes for the transition but if EU is lucky Trump will invade Greenland and will make people take the inconvenient path and US tech industry will compact into 350M US market. Europeans will have a few years of sub-par tech and then will have good sovereign tech.

  • This reminds me of a 1995 Norwegian song, freely translated by me and chatgtp:

        We dreamed of America
        where the soft wind lives.
        We dreamed of America
        where honey flowers grow,
        where the sky is vast and blue
        with stars and stripes upon it too.
        We dreamed of America,
        but not anymore,
        no, not anymore.
    
        I don't know when people first began dreaming of America.
        Long before Columbus, people dreamed of America, I think.
        A place of everlasting flowers where everyone was free and happy, and
        no one had to take off their hat for anyone unless they wanted to themselves.
        A smiling paradise where love lasts forever,
        and old age is beautiful, a place without any smell.
    
        In 1945—before that too, but certainly in 1945—I knew what I was going to be
        when I grew up.
        I was going to be an *American*.
    
        That spring, the first films from the Pacific War arrived,
        where the Americans stood with bent knees on jungle paths and shot Japanese soldiers with U.S. carbines.
        The Japanese were ugly, with protruding teeth and protruding ribs,
        while the Americans were brave, handsome, clean-cut, and immortal.
        And even if they did die, they died with a courageous smile and said:
    
        "Give this letter to my mother; she will understand."
    
        While the Japanese died like grubs and worms,
        and we felt no pity for them.
    
        Besides being ugly, they were portrayed as horribly stupid—so stupid that they spoke broken English even when talking to each other.
    
        I know that we dreamed of America well into the 1960s.
        A scentless land beyond the sea,
        where everyone had cars and white teeth.
    
        I don't know exactly when it stopped.
    
        But one day in the 1960s, we not only stopped loving America as a god;
        we began hating America as a fallen god.
    
        And nothing falls so heavily, so hard, and so deep
        as a fallen god
        who turns out not to be a god at all,
        but merely America.
    
        Then America was blamed not only for the Vietnam War and environmental disasters,
        but also, for example, for car culture.
        And the greatest share of the blame fell on the man who discovered America.
    
        Now, 487 years after his death, Christopher Columbus is blamed not only for the slave trade from West Africa,
        but also for the murder of Kennedy,
        and for all the worlds traffic accidents.
    
        Now they say Columbus was a bastard.
    
        Because it was he who discovered America in 1492.

  • This kind of sums up my sentiment.

    All throughout my adult life the US (for all its apparent faults) was to me a shining example of progress and humanity. It was the best large scale implementation of human rights, laws, and democracy. Sure it was far from perfect but “as good as it gets, for now”

    Became very disillusioned with that image of the US in the last couple of years. Maybe it’s always been like that - but the recent cronyism, the blatant openly displayed corruption and complete disregard for all the values it used to champion really destroyed the good image I had of the US.

    In years to come they will realise what this loss of image (or “aura” as the kids would say) really means in a very practical and blunt sense.

    • > was to me a shining example of progress and humanity.

      Which country was the US bombing to the ground at this period you're reminiscing on?

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    • Yes, US was also the guide star when it comes to dilemmas. When not sure, check out what Americans do and they will probably have it figured it out without the bias that we may have due to historical reasons.

      I firmly believe that the dominant feeling towards US today isn't anger or hate, its heartbreak and disappointment.

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Ah, come on, now that those government agencies and their employees are using "non-sovereign tech" (ie. chatgpt/claude/gemini) for thinking, the emails are basically not a concern at all.

This is ignoring that AI also, of course, lets spying agencies move from having every email ever sent in most countries to actually reacting to every email ever sent in most countries. They can move from helping Boeing make foreign airline companies ignore door closing issues to influencing every last restaurant's drinks buying decision individually.

I mean, I doubt they're there yet, but that's what they'll want to do.

Disaster, meet Catastrophe.