For those that don't like calling them CCP models, may I remind you, the CCP won't let Chinese AI researchers out of the country any more without securing approval first[1].
I tend to agree with the comment in my reply thread about whether we really need to add biased modifiers to the essence of a good product. I think every national system in this world is flawed. And in this context, 'China or Chinese' is often used in a negative sense, like 'Made in China'. But KIMI is a good model, and I think the comment that pointed this out to me correctly identified my unconscious bias.
And even if the Chinese Communist Party provided funding, the result is still transparently released. So even if it is some kind of propaganda, I don't see what the problem is.
Is the monopolistic greed of American companies 'good', and China's greed 'bad'? I do have that question.
The question is not whether it is a good model, it is whether the model can be trusted to not act intentionally maliciously against certain topics or certain users.
We live in a time of a great geopolitical rivalry and high tensions with an emergent technology with tons of national security implications. To pretend otherwise is silly, and to fail to ask the question, dangerous.
> The question is not whether it is a good model, it is whether the model can be trusted to not act intentionally maliciously against certain topics or certain users.
We absolutely know that we can't trust the American model not to do that - it's "by the oligarchs, for the oligarchs" - so it's not clear what the claim really is.
Doesn't matter, because they're open-weight, so I can just download them to my PC and... hey, look, now they're owned by me! Unlike the "good" Western counterparts which are all fully proprietary. (Except Mistral, but they're nowhere near SOTA.)
Do you believe there's some meaningful benefit to the American VC funding model in this case? It's not clear to me what you're trying to say or why you think it's an important distinction.
Assuming you are just naive like so many others about China...
China is a communist country with elements of capitalistic markets baked in. But the capitalistic elements are mostly a facade. Underneath, the state retains full ownership and control of all business. The CCP runs all aspects of the government (including the courts/judges), and is the single entity that decides what directions the country (and it's businesses) will move in.
The CCP, who defacto owns everything and has ultimate final say on everything, has one leader that has the ultimate final say on _everything_, Xi Jinping.
So while the waters of CCP models feel warm and free, understand it's not organically like that.
> China is a communist country with elements of capitalistic markets baked in.
While I get the point you're making (it should be pretty obvious to anyone who's held a newspaper), I think it's important regardless to point out that Chinese companies AFAIK aren't worker-owned or -controlled, so you can't exactly call it communism, either. And they obviously do not have a "free market capitalism", as you just discussed.
It's simply a highly authoritarian state then, I guess?
Crazy mental gymnastics if you think the American oligarchs don’t have the final say on everything in America. They’re just smart enough to do it behind the scenes, well they used to be. They barely bother anymore.
Google and Tesla making products to sell to the government is different than the government funding the government to make products for the government.
In China it's all one entity with these mock facades of privatization. Trump cannot instruct Google to put picture of dogs on their homepage. If Xi wakes up and wants dogs on Alibaba's homepage, give it 30 minutes.
It's wholly ignorant or dishonest to make the comparison.
Tim Apple and the other tech CEO constantly groveling at Trump’s feet indicates that he might be able to do that.
Just like threatening TV networks about having their licenses revoked of blocking mergers unless they fire the people making fun of him on TV (of course with slightly mixed success)
> Trump cannot instruct Google to put picture of dogs on their homepage.
Sundar Pichai would personally be barking on a livestream on the homepage.
Trump is quite literally the one president showing that the US has zero rules or anything to hold power back from the white house, really not the example you want.
For those that don't like calling them CCP models, may I remind you, the CCP won't let Chinese AI researchers out of the country any more without securing approval first[1].
[1] https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/artificial-intell...
C'mon shills, get on the whataboutism...
Strange that you feel so strongly about this just one day after US govt effectively shut down Mythos.
I tend to agree with the comment in my reply thread about whether we really need to add biased modifiers to the essence of a good product. I think every national system in this world is flawed. And in this context, 'China or Chinese' is often used in a negative sense, like 'Made in China'. But KIMI is a good model, and I think the comment that pointed this out to me correctly identified my unconscious bias.
And even if the Chinese Communist Party provided funding, the result is still transparently released. So even if it is some kind of propaganda, I don't see what the problem is.
Is the monopolistic greed of American companies 'good', and China's greed 'bad'? I do have that question.
The question is not whether it is a good model, it is whether the model can be trusted to not act intentionally maliciously against certain topics or certain users.
We live in a time of a great geopolitical rivalry and high tensions with an emergent technology with tons of national security implications. To pretend otherwise is silly, and to fail to ask the question, dangerous.
> The question is not whether it is a good model, it is whether the model can be trusted to not act intentionally maliciously against certain topics or certain users.
We absolutely know that we can't trust the American model not to do that - it's "by the oligarchs, for the oligarchs" - so it's not clear what the claim really is.
Whether or not it's propaganda is different from the fact that it is owned by the CCP.
Doesn't matter, because they're open-weight, so I can just download them to my PC and... hey, look, now they're owned by me! Unlike the "good" Western counterparts which are all fully proprietary. (Except Mistral, but they're nowhere near SOTA.)
7 replies →
Should we call this the DARPA Internet then?
Do you believe there's some meaningful benefit to the American VC funding model in this case? It's not clear to me what you're trying to say or why you think it's an important distinction.
I've heard this claim before but I've never seen any evidence.
Have you looked, or you’re just waiting for someone to hand it to you?
The burden of evidence is on the accuser.
4 replies →
Assuming you are just naive like so many others about China...
China is a communist country with elements of capitalistic markets baked in. But the capitalistic elements are mostly a facade. Underneath, the state retains full ownership and control of all business. The CCP runs all aspects of the government (including the courts/judges), and is the single entity that decides what directions the country (and it's businesses) will move in.
The CCP, who defacto owns everything and has ultimate final say on everything, has one leader that has the ultimate final say on _everything_, Xi Jinping.
So while the waters of CCP models feel warm and free, understand it's not organically like that.
> China is a communist country with elements of capitalistic markets baked in.
While I get the point you're making (it should be pretty obvious to anyone who's held a newspaper), I think it's important regardless to point out that Chinese companies AFAIK aren't worker-owned or -controlled, so you can't exactly call it communism, either. And they obviously do not have a "free market capitalism", as you just discussed.
It's simply a highly authoritarian state then, I guess?
4 replies →
Crazy mental gymnastics if you think the American oligarchs don’t have the final say on everything in America. They’re just smart enough to do it behind the scenes, well they used to be. They barely bother anymore.
1 reply →
yes, yes, the spectre of communism, BYD is the CCP, Alibaba is the CCP, stealing your children and eating them for Mao, bla bla bla.
I have a feeling you'd be slightly salty at people saying "Google and Tesla are making CIA models"
I mean...
Since its development, IQT has invested in over 750 startups spanning diverse technological sectors, including:
This broad portfolio has enabled IQT to address a wide array of national security challenges while supporting the growth of innovative startups…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-Q-Tel
https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2012/07/16/15...
https://www.cgai.ca/th_bn_iqt
I know, but it's far too fun to bait the parent into revealing how ignorant they are.
Going by their response you appear to have been correct lol
I'm not salty, they are just confused about the difference between free enterprise capitalism and communism, which is understandable.
Google and Tesla making products to sell to the government is different than the government funding the government to make products for the government.
In China it's all one entity with these mock facades of privatization. Trump cannot instruct Google to put picture of dogs on their homepage. If Xi wakes up and wants dogs on Alibaba's homepage, give it 30 minutes.
It's wholly ignorant or dishonest to make the comparison.
> Trump cannot instruct Google to
Tim Apple and the other tech CEO constantly groveling at Trump’s feet indicates that he might be able to do that.
Just like threatening TV networks about having their licenses revoked of blocking mergers unless they fire the people making fun of him on TV (of course with slightly mixed success)
> Trump cannot instruct Google to put picture of dogs on their homepage.
Sundar Pichai would personally be barking on a livestream on the homepage.
Trump is quite literally the one president showing that the US has zero rules or anything to hold power back from the white house, really not the example you want.
5 replies →