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Comment by bulbar

1 day ago

[flagged]

You don't know your history. Zionism started in the late 19th century as a nationalist and colonialist movement; by 1917 it had already secured the support of the (soon to be) British administration of Palestine for the creation of a Jewish state there; mass immigration was already underway and flooded with hundreds of thousands of colonists a territory that had had almost no Jewish presence for a thousand years or more. Ethnic cleansing of the native population was already in the plans, as shown by the private diaries of the father of Zionism Theodore Herzl.

When in 1948 the UN formulated its partition plan (i.e. the proposal to expropriate the Palestinians of half of their land to give it to the Jewish immigrants), the land that the proposal assigned to the Jewish state had a 45% Palestinian population, which the newborn state immediately proceeded to ethnically cleanse. Besides, Israel never formally accepted the borders of the partition plan and immediately set to conquer new territory (plan Dalet).

  • In the 40s, Jewish migration was restricted by Britain, which changed after WWII because of the Holocaust. As already stated, the political landscape shifted when the Holocaust came to light.

    As of today, 20% of Israel population are Arabic. Compare that to how Jewish population developed in Arabic countries i.e. Egypt, with practically zero Jews left. Not saying they did ethnical cleansing, but you don't end up with 20% when doing that. We will never now how the numbers had turned out without Arabic countries attacking Israel multiple times, but for sure with more than 20%.

    > immediately set to conquer new territory

    That's rewriting history. The initial borders and border changes happened while defending against attacks from other countries. Regarding the six day war, from what I have read, there are serious signs that support the view of the six day war being a preemptive strike.

  • [flagged]

    • Lol. While of course Zionism was conceived also as a solution to the persecutions that Jews were facing in Europe, it was born within the European ideology of nationalist movements of that period (which gave birth to several of the European nations of today) and of colonialism- also a widespread and uncontroversial feature of the time. Nothing specifically bad about Zionism in this respect, it's simply a product of the ideas of its time.

      All the rest, about Israel existence today, is irrelevant. We can recognize the mistakes of the past to at least understand how we got to this point and what's the best and correct way forward. It's not about reverting history but at least knowing it.

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    • The creator of Zionism, Teodore Herzl was very clear that it was a colonial project dependent on ethnic cleansing:

      > We must expropriate gently the private property on the state assigned to us. We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it employment in our country. The property owners will come over to our side. Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discretely and circumspectly. Let the owners of the immoveable property believe that they are cheating us, selling us things for more than they are worth. But we are not going to sell them anything back. (Theodore Herzl, 12 June 1895)

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The country of Israel is based on western colonialism, taking advantage of the atrocities of WWII and the Holocaust.

It was meant as a western foothold in the middle east, which is clearly the case now. In a despicable manner, Germany now is aiding and abetting the atrocities committed by the colony of Israel, as if two wrongs make a right.

  • This is false and ahistorical. Repeating the same sentiment, as is your wont, cannot change that it is factually incorrect.