Comment by nicbou
14 hours ago
One of the reasons I left North America for Europe is that such things are normalised. The cultural difference is staggering.
In Germany, if you are on vacation, you are simply not available. You are dead to the world until you return. Emails do not get read, and devices get left at the office.
Another neat thing is that if you get sick on vacation, you get your vacation days back, because vacation days are for resting and recovering.
> if you are on vacation, you are simply not available. You are dead to the world until you return. Emails do not get read, and devices get left at the office.
It's funny because that's kind of the definition of a vacation in my book. I find it weird that some places in the world handle it differently.
Note that it's also much better for the company in the long run: It's a test of resilience and redundany, the famous bus factor. It simulates what happens if someone is not available, and forces the organization around to have a backup plan. Having those is important for cases where employees leave the company or team (switching jobs/teams, accidents, sickness, parental leave, death, burnout, layoffs etc.). It's mind-boggling how many leads at various levels just don't understand that.
I remember vaguely from interning at a bank that there you were actually obliged to be totally isolated from the company for a continuous period of time by policy.
The thinking was that if you were cooking the books of doing some dodgy dealing on the side it would come to light without you there to actively 'manage' it.
I'm a senior at a big tech company. You can do this in America too. Just communicate with your manager and set the boundary. "By the way, when I'm on vacation I'm away from devices, so let's coordinate beforehand if there's anything critical path."
100%, and it extends beyond vacations, too. Unless you have a formal on-call arrangement, then any time you spend doing work stuff outside of your work hours is time you are choosing to donate to your company. It's fine if you want to do that, but you don't have to. I work 8-4 every day. I am not contactable outside that window and definitely not contactable on my days off. I haven't worked at a ton of different places, but at the places & teams I have worked with, I've never had anyone object to this policy.
In the USA at least, I've found that this kind of "not working means not available" arrangement is easier or harder based on your seniority and the kind of company you work for. I am able to hold the line on this now, 25 years into my career, but it took a long time to get to this point, and I never would have been able to swing it when I was a junior programmer, and when I was working in a hyper-work-obsessed startup.
Back in the early 2000s when I was Junior Engineer Number 32204, and not particularly valuable to my medium sized company in a competitive industry, I could never have gotten away with "Oh, by the way, boss, I am totally unreachable nights and weekends, and don't bring work with me on vacation." But, now, quite a bit more senior in my career and working in a "comfortable" big tech role, it's possible.
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I've lived and worked in America my entire life, and in my approximately 40 years of working I've never had a job where I was expected or had to arrange to be available during a vacation. For the odd unplanned personal day maybe I'd try to check email and have my phone with me. But vacation, never.
It doesn't need to be arranged. Like you said, we would check email ourselves of our own volition.
> if you get sick on vacation, you get your vacation days back,
This slightly blew my American mind but it makes sense. What about getting sick on calendar holidays?
Not to forget that you get a minimum of four weeks of vacation per year with 30 days being offered most of the time.
This year I used my vacation time well and I already had 3 weeks off while I still have almost 4 weeks left.
This is how it should be though - nobody should be irreplaceable. Look up bus factor etc.
Thanks for the reminder that this shouldn't be taken for granted. I am a German and sometimes this privilege feels so normal that it's unthinkable that it could be different elsewhere in the world.
I help immigrants integrate for a living. Germany can be a frustrating country, but this is one of its best redeeming qualities.
I'd also add that the culture allows and encourages sick days. The average is 15 sick days per year IIRC.
Totally off-topic, but I read your profile to learn about this: https://allaboutberlin.com - you do awesome work, thank you!
Now I wonder if I could help the immigrants in my area (I'm in Hesse/Hessen), thanks for the inspiration too.
The average number of sick days used is 15 or the number of days offered?
In New Zealand we get a minimum of 10 sick working days per year but some companies offer more and allow unused sick leave to accumulate.
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It can honestly be annoying, if you're not privvy to it.
I remember years ago needing urgent support for some bespoke European hardware we were developing software for. When we called support, we were greeted with a phone message stating the company was closed for the entire month due to vacation. This was not a one-man operation; the whole office closed for a summer holiday. We thought it was a joke.
Needless to say we started to look for a new vendor shortly thereafter...
I'm surprised, typically we don't all take vacation at the same time, but stagger it.
It really depends on the areas. On white collar jobs yes. It is more frequent in blue collars workers because it is easier to close completely or partially (several lines) in a factory than having to manage different vacations schedules. Constructions companies also do stop because you usually need most workers available + hot weather makes it harder anyway. Small/familiar companies also do it frequently because it doesn't make sense to work if you have dependencies on a number or unavailable persons.
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It's not entirely uncommon, even companies like Volkswagen have 3 weeks of summer vacation. Strictly speaking, some people still work there for maintenance, etc. that can't be done while making cars, but the majority is on vacation.
I know a handful of companies with a week of mandatory Christmas vacation as well (but there's typically not too many working days between Christmas and New Years' either way).
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My advice is don’t ever buy anything that might need support from New Zealand between 24 Dec and 5 Jan. The entire country is just about closed (other than non-niche consumer stores).
Many companies force staff to take vacation days during this time, and there are four (yes four!) public holidays during this period.
Four? Poland has five! (Counting 6th Jan)
I mean, that's not usual at all in Europe either.