Comment by SoftTalker
15 hours ago
Strikes me as bizarre that payment code would be sensitive, unless it's a security by obscurity thing (which would also be concerning).
Keys, secrets, etc. yes. But code? What am I missing here?
15 hours ago
Strikes me as bizarre that payment code would be sensitive, unless it's a security by obscurity thing (which would also be concerning).
Keys, secrets, etc. yes. But code? What am I missing here?
As others have said, it's Apple and they do not take kindly to other people leaking their technology/announcements ahead of time.
See also: the time that ATI's CEO told his employees that their chips would be powering Apple's to-be-announced hardware a few days before the announcement. Steve Jobs responded by pulling all of ATI's hardware from its demo units at the announcement, not mentioning ATI at all, cancelling a joint demonstration of the Radeon card that was going to be in the system, and never partnering with ATI again.
https://web.archive.org/web/20001216031800/https://www.zdnet...
From the linked article, it was a press release, not just to his employees.
> The incident began Monday when ATI, which supplies graphics cards for all Apple's current models, issued a four-paragraph news release that stated its Radeon processor would be featured in three new Mac models -- none of which were announced by Apple (Nasdaq: AAPL) until CEO Steve Jobs' Wednesday morning keynote address.
Oh, I misremembered then. Yikes.
Sounds like a bit of a dick...
For violating an embargo and publishing a press release announcing products of another company that hadn’t been debuted? What “non-dick” response do you think is appropriate against a prospective partner that violated clear guidelines that defined their partnership which basically included “#1: Keep your mouth shut”, exactly?
He was, but this incident wasn't an example. That's a righteous punishment for an infraction like that.
Going scorched earth was kind of Steve’s thing.
I believe that the action does reflect Jobs' ego in the following way.
Namely, his belief that CEO == company.
Jobs would never take the view that the action of the CEO of ATI is actually one bad actor acting alone which doesn't represent what ATI wants as an organization, and is unfair and damaging to that organization and all of its employees.
The reason he would not take that view is because then he would not be able to believe that he is the single most important thing at Apple, overshadowing everything else.
If the leak had been the responsibility of some rank and file employee at ATI, with appropriate action taken against that employee by the ATI CEO, it is likely that Jobs would likely have reacted differently, because it then would not longer be seen as a personal matter between him and the CEO, where the corporations are just pawns in a game of teach-you-a-lesson.
1 reply →
They unilaterally issued a press release about Apple's upcoming release.
That's kinda a no-no for partnerships.
One word: "Courage"
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> and never partnering with ATI again.
Except of course shipping ATI hardware for years afterwards, then also using nvidia, then dropping nvidia and only using ATI/AMD until transitioning to Apple Silicon.
Well:
1. They kept existing designs, since even Jobs wasn't so crazy as to demand a complete re-architecture of existing laptop models on a whim; plus they probably also had contractual obligations/pre-purchase arrangements
2. They switched to nvidia, but from everything I know they also hated working with nvidia (IIRC Jobs accused nvidia of stealing Pixar tech)
3. AMD is a different company than ATI (technically), and Apple of that era was different than the Steve Jobs temper tantrum era.
But yes, relevant details.
Also Steve Jobs Apple is probably much different than today's Apple.
It’s funny how exciting Apple Pay was when introduced, only Apple pulled the lock-everyone-in card and now we’re all using QRcodes.
In the US you can use Apple Pay anywhere NFC payments are accepted. It's generally completely open on the acceptance side at this point
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I'm in HK, most HKers use ApplePay with NFC, and don't use QR codes. Over in mainland China, however, it's all QR codes (with AliPay, WePay).
I guess the "we" depends strongly on location - I've no problem using Apple Pay basically everywhere except Walmart.
No idea what this is referring to...
SHEESH
Because it's Apple. They are huge, have scary lawyers, write scary contracts, and want to "delight the user" with features only when they announce them. They hate leaks, and demand separate teams for basically any/all development.
The code revealed the existence of Apple Pay, which had not been publicly confirmed.
The non-strawman version of "security through obscurity" is the belief that a system is secured by means of keeping its mechanisms secret.
Suppose an organization doesn't believe such a thing; it's still more secure to keep code secret than not.
Obscurity is a valid layer of security, just not a valid corner stone or linchpin of security.
In particular, when code operates as a service (end users don't have the executable code on their machines) then protecting the source code is a real security measure. Without it, attackers can only probe the service as a black box, guessing about what it is doing.
It seems this wasn’t about the code itself, it was about Apple Pay not being announced yet. So only people under NDA would be allowed to even know what they are working on.
There is a bunch of mundane stuff in the banking/finance world masked off by paperwork.
It's not sensitive in the leaking state secrets sense it's sensitive in the risk adverse lawyers on both sides think it's sensitive.
The Bureaucracy exists to perpetuate the Bureaucracy.
Yes Apple Pay relies on security through obscurity even today. See the Veritasium recently made a video about it https://youtu.be/PPJ6NJkmDAo?is=iUuJ0W9xUHF_6gTU
It's kinda like that, there could be a proprietary fraud detection heuristic in there that you don't want to get out.
> security by obscurity thing... What am I missing here?
You are looking at the problem from the wrong direction.
If you build a honeypot, to trap hackers, does it behove you to explain what the bait is, and how the trap works?
Know your customer, fraud detection heuristics, finger prints, behavioral triggers are all areas where banks, and financial institutions need to keep the sauce secret. Telling the other party "how" you catch them just gives them the steps of what not to do.
Maybe that’s some scoring to decide if you should be able to pay or not with some method.