Comment by comrade1234
1 day ago
Nice pass. Would be perfect for my wife and I since we don't commute for work. There is something similar here in Switzerland but not as good.
Funny fact: there are cities here that have tried to make public transport free. But the constitution says public transport must have a "reasonable charge". It's obvious that law was created to not overcharge but the courts have ruled that it also means that there can't be no charge. So no free public transport.
My understanding of that ruling is that, the intent of the constitutional clause is not only to prevent ticket prices from being raised unfairly, but also to prevent ticket prices from being so low that they no longer cover the cost of running the network, which would shift that cost to the general taxpayer.
Still frustrating (if the taxpayers want it, might as well let them have it), but not purely a semantic technicality.
Public transport is not sustainable from ticket prices alone anywhere in Europe.
Neither is road infrastructure basically anywhere in the world... Here in Australia we have a fuel tax and each state has registration fees but combined those don't even cover half of what is spent by Government and local councils maintaining existing roads and investing in new road infrastructure, and that's before even thinking of the hidden costs of traffic enforcement, ambulances responding to accidents, etc.
It's the same case for basically everywhere around the world, driving ends up being quite heavily subsidised too.
True for local lines of everyday transportation. But actually high speed trains are sustainable, at least in France.
But also they are super expensive.
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That's a bold assertion.
Never mind that you know what's also not "sustainable", if the definition means "costs > revenues"? Automobile roads :)
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Citation needed.
Public transport in larger cities is generally profitable as the seats are well-filled. Commercial companies pay the government for the privilege of being allowed to operate the services.
Public transport is indeed not very profitable in rural areas, as you're running a bunch of mostly-empty buses in order to provide the bare minimum of usable connectivity. The companies operating them are paid by the government to do so.
Besides, it is myopic to look solely at ticket prices. Roads are incredibly unprofitable as their maintenance costs far exceed the tiny amount of money brought in by vehicle taxes and fuel duties. But we're okay with that because the added value to the economy more than compensates for that! Lose money on road building, make money by taxing the companies who drive the trucks sustaining their businesses over them. Why not take the same approach with public transport?
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Does the Swiss rail not receive public funding? It seems to me that undercharging would only necessitate more public funding, not some fundamental change where taxpayers suddenly have to pay for something they didn't before.
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Are the city streets tolled?
having a nominal charge would probably lead to less abuse of the system, and any contribution to the upkeep/maintenance would be welcome, I'd imagine
What kind of abuse are you thinking of?
Ecological? You can be sure companies would somehow exploit ut for their services. It should cost at least enough to cover the energy expenses.
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i've seen this argument before, normally they're talking about homeless people sleeping on trains or in stations
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On the other hand, no charges mean you can get rid of a lot of cruft: no tickets, no gates/turnstiles, no machines, no payments, no paperwork thereof, no ticket inspectors, etc etc. So in fact having 0 charge is unequivocally better than having a residual charge.
In other words: charge price = cost, or don't charge at all and get funded by public revenue.
In every city I know of, the fares for public transit more than pays for the cost of collecting. Also, in every city I'm aware of, even the ones with high transit ridership (Tokyo), there is lots of room for adding more transit and getting even more people on, but money is lacking to do that.
I'm also aware of no place where people who use transit to consider cost one of the major barriers to using it more. The barrier, even for the poorest people, is almost always not cause, but the service just doesn't meet their needs. Which is to say most transit systems need to raise their fares a little more and use that extra money to give people the service they actually want.
I wasn't aware of that fun fact - I always just assumed it was down to the "personal responsibility" mindset ("people must pay for what they use").
Have the courts also said anything about the charge being super low, e.g. like a CHF 1 per month abo or such? I wonder if that would be a way around those rulings.
That sort of begs the question about elevators and escalators. I’ve never been charged riding those, and I can’t imagine fares tacked on in Switzerland. Have they been ruled on? An elevator in a public building is very much public transport.
I know it’s stupid, but I’m genuinely curious now.
Presumably there would be a legal definition of what constitutes public transport, and I would expect it wouldn't include those. But I'm neither swiss nor do I speak any swiss languages so hell if I could find it.
> An elevator in a public building is very much public transport.
Every country defines what counts as public transport - it could be a snowmobile, a boat, or a helicopter if needed. The simple definition of "transports people in a public place" would cover a lot of funny things as public transport, like a carousel in a playground.
Free public transport routes worldwide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_free_public_transport_...
What's the largest-value coin in circulation ? Charge one of those. Drop a coin in the gumball machine, get a token.
Is this a knowing joke? Switzerland's largest (very much in both senses) coin is 5Fr, around 6 USD. Not a token amount by any means, though it wouldn't even cover most public transport journeys in cities.
Oh wow, that bites. No, it was not a "knowing joke". Just a failure to anticipate Swiss ways.
The trains can still charge, but what if the government pays the tab automatically?
People who use it more really should contribute something vs those who never use it.
Should people who use roads more contribute something vs those who don't?
Yes and they do in many jurisdictations. In Austria gas tax is used for road maintenance, on top of that there are tolls for highways.
Yes. This was the original intent behind the gasoline tax.
Personally, I find no charge very, very reasonable lol