Comment by steve1977
12 hours ago
What I find interesting is that the article seems to imply that wearing earbuds to isolate is somewhat "unnatural" (for lack of a better term).
However it does not take into account that the kind of social interactions where people wear earbuds (i.e. loud and busy environments with many strangers, often physically closer than comfortable) is unnatural to begin with.
For me, isolating myself acoustically is a way to normalize such environments back to a more "natural" setting.
Funny how new technology is unnatural but old technology, (that existed before we were born, like cars, streets, subways) are “natural”.
Douglas Adams summed it up eloquently:
“I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.”
Yes! When walking along busy streets, I put my airpods on without music just to remove some of the car noise.
I do the same when visiting large metropolitan areas! I don't want to be completely deaf, but reducing all the high-pitched noises and rumbling really makes my perception see/hear the environment more calmly.
Exactly.
Noise cancelling is a treasure.
And what I really like about them is the ease of use.
The moment I start talking to someone, automagically the NC is paused as well as any audio you were listening to.
It sounds so easy but is really running smoothly. Over time Apple really perfected the workings.
This blend is what makes them so valuable for me. I don’t have to manually do anything, simply speak and interact without having to touch them.
This is what bothered me really well, especially at work. Headset on, headset off - not anymore.
And people now don’t feel neglected when you keep the Pods in your ear.
Social reconditioning was part of the problem so to say. This tool is now accepted.
Well deserved. I am buying another pair of the AirPods Pro. I want a bit of safety after I temporarily lost one ear pod - I felt so disturbed, suddenly not being able to enjoy freedom acoustically anymore. Just to make sure and switch between them.
> And people now don’t feel neglected when you keep the Pods in your ear.
I disagree with this. Pods in ears are essentially a "do not disturb" sign for most people. Being around people who regularly have the "do not disturb" sign feels neglecting. People who might initiate conversation don't know if they will even be heard if they try to talk, so why bother. I would rather be alone than in a room of people who are actively ignoring each other.
I dislike the NC pause because it often awkwardly unpauses when someone is replying to you. I just pop the earbuds out when I start talking. To me, speaking with earbuds in is rude, and I want to show the courtesy to the person I'm talking to that they have my attention.
Keep in mind that some AirPods are now certified hearing aids.
So before calling someone rude for talking to you with their AirPods on, make sure they don't need them on to hear you in the first place.
I myself always put at least one down when talking to someone, but I've learned to make the distinction between someone that is actually involved in the discussion, and someone that's still listening to what's coming from their connected device.
The automatic switching from noise canceling to transparency mode really does work incredibly, and I'm still shocked at how well it works, but it still feels ridiculous to speak to someone with AirPods in my ears. Even if I know that transparency mode is on (and on the newest Pros, it's so good that I can barely hear a difference between it and not wearing them), it still feels rude to speak to someone with them in.
I always take one AirPod out if I have to say literally anything to anyone, and both come out if it's going to be more than one sentence. Just feels rude. We've someone created a technical marvel: the world becomes silent all around you, and then the world comes back immediately when you start speaking, and then it slowly evaporates around you when you stop speaking for a few moments.
And yet it still feels ridiculous! And rude!
>> The moment I start talking to someone, automagically the NC is paused as well as any audio you were listening to.
This is one of those features I thought would be great and unfortunately had to disable in minutes. If you ever listen to music and sing along, even for a few seconds, the volume cuts because it thinks you're talking to someone. It's a shame. There's so many really great AirPods features and I feel like I've had to disable almost all of them for one reason or another.
>> And people now don’t feel neglected when you keep the Pods in your ear. Social reconditioning was part of the problem so to say. This tool is now accepted.
I think it'll get there eventually but it's still far from accepted in my opinion. Maybe if you're ordering at a Starbucks or something but if someone was trying to have a conversation with my with AirPods in I'd consider it rude. And even if it's becomes widely accepted I think it'll still have some mild stigma (equivalent to wearing sunglasses when having a conversation unless the sun is in your eyes).
>If you ever listen to music and sing along, even for a few seconds, the volume cuts because it thinks you're talking to someone. It's a shame.
This became such a huge problem when watching Jeopardy with my AirPods. I keep mumbling answers every 30-ish seconds, and when I do that, the show pauses and the world suddenly becomes audible and I have to remember to disable that feature.
> If you ever listen to music and sing along, even for a few seconds, the volume cuts
Yup, and I also have this problem when I laugh out loud listening to comedy podcasts.
> The moment I start talking to someone, automagically the NC is paused as well as any audio you were listening to.
When I'm listening to music, the music helps form my sense of time. It is deeply jarring to have the music pause for a few minutes and then start as though in 'music-land' no time had passed.
I'd be happier if the music volume went to zero but the song/track kept progressing.
They seem to have done so much work on the magic behaviors of the airpods (most of which I don’t have occasions to use) but they still work worse than a $35 pair of Ankers when it comes to just connecting, staying connected, and playing music without issue.
They’re especially flaky if you’re using them with apples watch.
I spent a few bucks on the pros, and the phone, and the watch, and the mini, and the tv, and the laptops. I shouldn’t be leaving that ecosystems ear buds in the drawer because the borderline disposable ones off amazon are the pair that “just work”.
The "always works" is the only reason I am using Airpods.
I have never had earbuds that are consistent in the way they connect in any circumstances. I have had Bose, high end Sony, Anker, and there are often times when you need it to connect in a rush and it forces you to shut down the device, the bluetooth on the phone, and waste 30 seconds that feel like 5 minutes.
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Complete opposite experience. Moved to the Apple ecosystem including the watch, and the seamlessness of how airpods work with them all had me give away all my other earbuds - even though the airpods do not have the best sound quality. The convenience of everything just working had me never reaching for anything else.
I have plenty of complaints about Apple, but the Airpods experience is one the stickiest user experiences they have and would be one of the harder things to give up if I moved back to Android.
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Are you sure you haven't got a faulty pair? Mine switch seamlessly between devices. I bought a bluetooth speaker recently and using it is hell on earth comparatively. The number of times I have to find the device it last connected to and disconnect before I can connect the one I actually want is absurd.
Agreed. Unrelated pro-tip: wearing them while riding a motorcycle. Reduces fatigue and transforms a rough experience into almost luxurious. Highly recommended.
Stupidly dangerous and (in my country) illegal.
Please retract your comment and don't encourage such stupidity.
EDIT: Since this is being misinterpreted... Earplugs that deaden sound are fine and encouraged on a motorbike, playing music in your ears is what masks other sound and is both stupid and illegal.
Really depends on how they are being worn. If they are on without any sound being played its fine. Ear plugs are highly encouraged while riding a motorcycle and after a decade plus of riding I have never thought ear plugs along with a headset prevented me from hearing whats going on around me.
Maybe it is your own misinterpretation as the parent never said they were playing music on them. You might not realize just how loud the wind noise is on a bike, you are not exactly hearing your surroundings music or not. Most if not all of your awareness on a motorcycle is coming from your eyes not ears, so hard to really say its stupid.
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Deaf people manage to get licenses with no problem. My hearing was never tested to get my license, unlike my eyesight.
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Since the advent of EVs, its not a safety issue imo. When Tesla's first came out, and the first adopters were all people that wanted to drive FAST, I was often surprised by them, especially since I always rode slightly faster than traffic as a safety mitigation technique. I quickly learned to use my eyes more.
My eyes are my ears and you cannot rely on sound to know who or what might be coming up from behind you. Mirrors and head on a swivel are way more important.
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My earbuds have a setting to allow for outside noises. Wearing them while walking, I often hear cars and other people well before I see them. Even with louder music, I still hear them. I can hold a conversation with people without taking them out. I don't wear them without music, though, because my own breathing is also louder and irritating.
If I have the noise cancelling turned on, it would be downright unsafe.
While it is likely illegal in many places, it isn't everywhere and the safety risk depends on what sort of equipment you have.
I wear earplugs and play music via Cardo while riding nearly every single day. It's fine.
Let's be realistic - noise cancelling isn't a perfect technology. I rode with my AirPods for a short period of time and could still hear everything I needed to. The only reason I switched is because they're uncomfortable in a helmet.
Is using headphones on a bike with music on or not somehow different from driving in a Lexus with music on or not?
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It is not illegal in every country. Further, wind noise and exhaust are too loud to hear anything anyway, so having music on and navigation is a bonus.
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It's been decades since I've ridden motorcyles but as I recall the helmet usually had foam padding over the ears and that was adequate for wind and noise reduction.
At least in Germany I think wearing headphones in ANY vehicle is against the law, even a bicycle, and even if you’re not listening to music (IANAL).
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No it isn't. Presumably you're trying to ban radios in cars as well?
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If that's illegal than cars with closed windows would be illegal too. Even more so if they have the radio on. As a cyclist I keep having issues with car drivers not hearing anything happening outside of their vehicle (not a bell, not yelling, not a bicycle hooter). That's like wearing headphones or earplugs and still is considered normal. I'd love if everyone would be required to drive a cabrio.
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Why stop people from winning Darwin awards?
A lot of motorcyclists are the scum of society in other ways. Probably higher levels of domestic violence than the police.
You want to wear airpods while on the motorcycle? If this is an unironic idea you are having, indulge!
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> Agreed. Unrelated pro-tip: wearing them while riding a motorcycle. Reduces fatigue and transforms a rough experience into almost luxurious. Highly recommended.
What kind of NRR rating, active or passive, do they have?
I wear disposable foam plugs when riding, and haven't ever considered using the AirPods I have. I find the sound of the machine part of the experience of riding and wouldn't really want to get rid of it; I treat the moto sound as a kind of white noise that's different that everything else in my life (though this is with a short-ish commute, and not long-distance drudgery).
If I wanted music or comms I would probably lean more towards ear plugs plus a Cardo/Sena unit. Or perhaps something with an official ANSI/CSA NRR rating, like Isotunes.
Use a model of in-ear phones which let you still hear the low frequency rumbling of the motor. That's the pleasant part of the noise anyway.
When I got my (admittedly car) license they made it clear that's illegal. Hasn't stopped people from doing it but yeah don't. Maybe get a quieter exhaust
It's illegal in a few places in the US, but not everywhere. It's definitely not illegal to put in a few kW of amplifiers and a few square feet of speakers, and often not even a problem to turn them all the way up and stop whole areas from hearing anything.
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Earplugs are pretty common on a motorcycle. The issue is not the exhaust, its the wind which gets to damaging levels at pretty low speeds.
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Fully agree that its dumb but even on my electric motorcycle at sub-highway speeds, the wind noise was the only thing I could hear.
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You're revealing that you have never rode a motorbike with your comment.
Riders need to use ear protection within the helmet unless they want to become deaf in the future, because of the wind noise.
You should be wearing ear protection in any case. The fact that the AirPods have a published SNL is a bonus.
So you're making noise for everyone else, while enjoying silence yourself?
There’s this thing called wind that makes noise and also other vehicles on the road as well. Did you ever consider that?
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In Europe it's strictly forbidden to wear headphones under the helmet. In case of a fall the in-ear device could cause grave injuries. Wearing a recent helmet and protective gloves with hardened knuckles is of course mandatory. But many helmets are equipped with bluetooth speakers and mike, of course.
> In Europe it's strictly forbidden to wear headphones under the helmet.
No it's not.
> protective gloves with hardened knuckles is of course mandatory
No it's not.
Do you ride for economic reasons?
Being able to hear your surroundings on a motorcycle or bicycle seems very important for safety to me. Filtering that out feels dangerous.
In the Netherlands they banned wearing earplugs/headphones on bicycles for this reason (as well as using your device). Whether that's enforced / enforceable is another matter though.
On a motorcycle you need hearing protection due to wind noise, but good plugs will filter out the louder noises, not so much important ones.
On a pedal bike, it's very important because you are most likely to be hit by cars from behind. Motorcycles move much faster, and most riders wear helmets as well, already impacting hearing. The road noise and wind is very loud, try rolling down the window in a car on the freeway and imagine that on .your whole body.
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As a cyclist, I find sound such a poor signal I'd consider it optional. Too many threats are silent and sound is too late, misleadingly bounces of other surfaces and generally poorly correlated with significance.
Safe cycling is all about vision. If you can't see it's safe, it's not. It isn't simply seeing imminent threats but predicting them e.g. identifying drivers that aren't paying attention and where a car could suddenly emerge like blind turnings, car doors, pedestrians and such, and countering with appropriate caution / road position.
If you find noise useful, IMHO it means you aren't sufficiently aware of your environment.
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Ear plugs are recommended while riding a motorcycle.
There is practically nothing to hear that matters for your safety on a motorcycle at highway speeds. An ambulance you will hear even with headphones.
Sorry but no! On my corner of the world it's not allowed but more importantly it's dangerous. When riding your bike you must have all your senses fully engaged. First day I got on my new ride my dad gave me a piece of biker wisdom: You are the weakest and smallest vehicle () on the road, watch out and drive like nobody can see you or cares about you.
() Bicycles and other light vehicles excluded
I ride with AirPods on, no content playing, just transparency mode. It cuts harsh wind noise, maintains 3D acoustics, and keeps me safer as a result. They’re a hearing aid for me in this case.
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No, riding for a long time without ear protection will damage your ears. Ear plugs at least are recommended. I am not hearing anything over the wind and engine noise anyway.
Interesting .. when we first moved to my current house we knew it was a quiet neighbourhood, helped by being set back from the main road. What I wasn't prepared for was the absolute silence in the early morning - it was what I imagine deafness would be like, if earbuds can achieve something approaching that, then take my money.
I think ears adapt to silence the way eyes adapt to darkness. When camping on some land I have is SE Oklahoma it’s so quiet I eventually begin to hear the conversations of our neighbors on their porch maybe a 1/2 mile away.
Humans have always crowded in busy markets, gone to large and loud parties, etc.
Is this sarcasm?
Not at all.
As far as trade goes, we have birds of paradise in New Mexico, 320k year old obsidian tools and color pigments found in Kenya that came from hundreds of miles away. We know trading across thousands of miles has been happening for hundreds of thousands of years.
As for large celebrations, ceremonies, or just parties—well it seems silly for me to even spend time citing specific evidence. Of course this has been happening for hundreds of thousands of years as well
> (i.e. loud and busy environments with many strangers, often physically closer than comfortable) is unnatural to begin with.
That's very natural when it comes to life in an urban setting. Love it or hate it, we wouldn't have been here now (I'm talking from a civilizational pov) without us humans moving into the cities.
I think the argument is that the urban setting itself is ancestrally unnatural. Only a tiny proportion of humans lived in areas full of strangers in close proximity until the last hundred or two hundred years, which is not long enough for any related changes to spread widely given generation length.
> I think the argument is that the urban setting itself is ancestrally unnatural.
That was my point, yes.
I would even argue that being surrounded by people is a natural state. Being isolated in a suburban home or an automobile is probably just as unnatural as being “surrounded by strangers”.
Our ancient ancestors probably did all of the following within eyesight and earshot of around 40 people:
Privacy and isolation are a very modern phenomenon. Even in the 19th century social norms around fornication and defecation and the privacy expected are much different than today.
Edit: I’m also deeply fascinated by the ability of historical sociolinguistics to give us insight into cultural attitudes towards different topics. Consider the evolution of and the attitude towards the expletives “fuck” and “Jesus Christ!”
But those 40 people were likely more or less consistent and known to you and you also had direct or implied trust built up with them.
That's fundamentally different from an anonymous mass of people in a city. I've seen and heard much more than 40 people (many of them different every day) before I even reach the office in the morning.
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> we wouldn't have been here now (I'm talking from a civilizational pov) without us humans moving into the cities.
What do you have in mind specifically?
Edit: I'm aware that statistically, there's more inventions in metropolitan areas. However I'm not sure how much of that we can really attribute to causal effects that are unique to cities, especially today. Obviously, many universities are in metropolitan areas, but on the other hand, we have many tools for remote collaboration that we didn't have 200 years ago. So I'm not sure if cities are not an outdated concept.
Strongly feeling a need to isolate yourself is not healthy and unnatural.
This varies enormously by where you live.
I live out in the countryside. If I run into someone in the road, I will nod my head, maybe introduce myself, and maybe chat, if the other person is interested. (To be fair, I know about 80% of the people I see in the road.) This is normal behavior. Sometimes, two cars will pass each other and stop to talk.
I have also lived in the city. If a stranger wants to talk to me in the city, either they're looking for directions (happy to help!), or they are deeply confused about appropriate social behavior in crowded spaces. In the latter case, I'm lucky if the stranger-with-no-boundaries merely wants to warn me about the dangers of the lizard people. So I've learned to ignore strangers.
> If a stranger wants to talk to me in the city, either they're looking for directions (happy to help!), or they are deeply confused about appropriate social behavior in crowded spaces
A neat summary of the article.
Talk to the old fogies in said city and they will saddle you with complaints of how people used to say good morning, how are you doing, etc. It didn’t used to be this way. Alas, we probably won’t be talking to the old fogies either.
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You're just taking the Western code of social conduct as "normal". Human interaction is completely normal and natural.
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Just because you personally disagree with something does not make it a universal wrong.
Thinking so is immature and unwise behavior.
For a non-solitary species that requires almost 2 decades for self-sufficiency, isolation is not a question of personal opinion, it is fundamental.
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This is a very un-nuanced and combative take on a lot of people's lives. It reminds me of it being socially acceptable for the extrovert to say to the introvert, "Why don't you talk more?" while it is not acceptable for the introvert to say to the extrovert, "Why don't you talk less?"
As they explain, living in such close proximity to thousands of strangers is also not how we evolved. The earphones are an adaptive strategy. Like masks on public transport during pandemics. We don't have to adapt to modern society, but we can make it more pleasant in various ways, depending on our preferences.
I'd agree in general terms, but I don't think city life or existing in busy and noisy spaces is either. Isolating as described (by putting on noise-canceling earphones) is a way to manage and reduce sensory input to something within your own control.
Some people are comfortable with that, some people (say they) are used to it, but a lot of people find that blocking it out works better for them.
> …not healthy and unnatural
I don’t think you can say this categorically without taking context and a myriad of facets of one’s socio-emotional situation into consideration.
Writing comments on HN is also completely unnatural.
> (i.e. loud and busy environments with many strangers, often physically closer than comfortable) is unnatural to begin with.
What is unnatural about this? We have plenty of anthropological evidence that humans have been doing massive festivals for at least many thousands of years i.e. people voluntarily gathering together with strangers in loud and busy environments with all sorts of sounds and smells.
We still have festival type experiences: concerts, street festivals, gatherings in a park, church, etc. None of them particularly look like the bus.
For one, when and where this was the case, it was probably once a year or so.* Not daily or weekly.
Furthermore, the "voluntarily" bit plays a big role as well. If I were to go to a big festival (as you can guess, I wouldn't), then I guess I would be fine with the people. But that's not the same as commuting IMHO, where I'm together with lots of people involuntarily.
* it's an interesting topic actually, so if you have any sources, I'd like to read them.
We have anthropological evidence that humans lived like sardines in a can 24/7? Where?
Ah yes, that natural many-thousand-year-old massive festival tradition we all know and love: the twice-daily subway ride. Good comparison.