Yeah, I used to work for a large-ish company that participated in projects like this.
The company has a project manager with a large spreadsheet to keep track of everything so that no employee would accidentally be officially double booked because that could be detected as fraud.
Some real work was done, but the meetings with other partners were a farce. You had these tiny companies whose only existence was to feed off the European money.
One day our manager asked if the architecture document of a 100kbps modem that I had worked on could be repurposed for a 1 Mbps modem project that was European funded…
Yes, I remember someone explaining that a similar thing happens with all kinds of research grants in the EU. Some companies specialize in writing very complex grant proposals in just such a way that they are likely accepted, and then produce some useless bullshit reports. Actual specialized companies with expertise in the matters the grant is about don't have the knowledge of how to fill out grant proposals in a way that gets them accepted by bureaucrats because they don't know how the decision process works. Depressing.
Indeed. Also, companies with a genuine and socially at least somewhat useful business model prefer focusing on customers buying their actual products as the main revenue source. The state- and EU-driven funding ecosystem is so convoluted that one either mostly ignores it in favor of value-creating work, or specializes in exploiting it, unfortunately.
German here, can confirm. Although, I don't think it's honest incompetence, but intentional corruption. Eg. public calls for bids tend to be a little too specific and politicians tend to get jobs where they funneled public money.
However, things are changing... As of this current government, nobody is scheming anymore. The corruption and wealth extraction happens openly. They are really testing the waters in what they can get away with. It's almost US level audacity, tho not yet as undignified. The sad part is, although people here are universally frustrated about it, they flock to the one party evidently more corrupt and incompetent than the CDU: The AfD.
Honestly, despite political disagreement, all my life I considered myself lucky to live here, but for the first time it makes me sick thinking about Germany's future, working here and paying taxes. And the base motives showing as reactionary malice by my fellow citizens disgust me. It's shameful to admit, but this country is truly ill and deeply corrupt.
People want more government control, but when governments take more control the press tells the people that it's bad and the people acquiesce.
In local forums, so often you see (paraphrasing a pattern) "why are the government interfering with landlords, they should stop so many barbers opening instead". That is, why are the gov interfering in property markets, instead they should interfere in property markets AND plan the economy (where economy here means 'financial system').
The people promoting planned economy without realising it are always 'right wing' 'all Communists should be shot'-types. It's fascinating.
I know a lot of left win Europeans who promote planned economy without realising it. So there's that.
I think a better way to look at it is people demanding the government to intervene whenever intervention is beneficial to them personally, while demanding the government leave things alone whenever intervention is detrimental to them personally. Which is just a long winded way to describe the basics of democracy - people voting in their own interest.
There are some people who care about policy, care about a generally healthy environment. Which has a strong self-interest aspect, as it should, but not narrow.
Few people manage to vote for their own narrow interests in a reliable coherent way. Even the rich and powerful reliably foot gun themselves.
I believe the vast majority, the vast majority of the time, reliably and enthusiastically vote for their group's shibboleths. Regardless of what they might say or believe their own motivations are. Even seemingly sophisticated and principled thinkers. It shows via the reliable, trivial to resolve, but reflection impervious group-coded "misunderstandings" that even "serious" people defend and nurture. The group reinforced, often meme-reflex deflected, unthinkables. Across the political spectrum.
Properly planning the economy, ala the Chinese tier system, is a good thing.
They have 3 tiers. Its called 新基建 - *Xīn Jījiàn
Top tier is for essentials like food, electricity, internet/comms, water, sewer. Heavily controlled, usually state owned companies.
Middle tier is stuff that's integrated into essential tier.
Lower tier is forefront of tech, and not at all critical for life.
And a reminder that even fucks like Nestle said that water is not a human right. But every capitalist would do their damndest to put a sale price on anything they could. They'd charge breathing if possible.
This is not that dissimilar to the US. The government either controls directly or is very heavily involved in all those things you listed in the top tier.
Every non capitalist would force you to work in random job they assign or force you to obey some rule or law they wrote for their own interest. you don't want to do the job? or dont want to follow the law and rules? fine! go to gulag and enjoy it there.
alternatively, non capitalist eras had real famines and lead to millions starving and dead. but sure putting a price for product/service after risking lots of capital is the real enemy, lmao. why biggest famines mostly happened in non capitalist places is real historical detail with lots of facts.
Yeah, I used to work for a large-ish company that participated in projects like this.
The company has a project manager with a large spreadsheet to keep track of everything so that no employee would accidentally be officially double booked because that could be detected as fraud.
Some real work was done, but the meetings with other partners were a farce. You had these tiny companies whose only existence was to feed off the European money.
One day our manager asked if the architecture document of a 100kbps modem that I had worked on could be repurposed for a 1 Mbps modem project that was European funded…
https://www.plexal.com/our-partners/
Yes, I remember someone explaining that a similar thing happens with all kinds of research grants in the EU. Some companies specialize in writing very complex grant proposals in just such a way that they are likely accepted, and then produce some useless bullshit reports. Actual specialized companies with expertise in the matters the grant is about don't have the knowledge of how to fill out grant proposals in a way that gets them accepted by bureaucrats because they don't know how the decision process works. Depressing.
Indeed. Also, companies with a genuine and socially at least somewhat useful business model prefer focusing on customers buying their actual products as the main revenue source. The state- and EU-driven funding ecosystem is so convoluted that one either mostly ignores it in favor of value-creating work, or specializes in exploiting it, unfortunately.
Sounds like Brazil...
German here, can confirm. Although, I don't think it's honest incompetence, but intentional corruption. Eg. public calls for bids tend to be a little too specific and politicians tend to get jobs where they funneled public money.
However, things are changing... As of this current government, nobody is scheming anymore. The corruption and wealth extraction happens openly. They are really testing the waters in what they can get away with. It's almost US level audacity, tho not yet as undignified. The sad part is, although people here are universally frustrated about it, they flock to the one party evidently more corrupt and incompetent than the CDU: The AfD.
Honestly, despite political disagreement, all my life I considered myself lucky to live here, but for the first time it makes me sick thinking about Germany's future, working here and paying taxes. And the base motives showing as reactionary malice by my fellow citizens disgust me. It's shameful to admit, but this country is truly ill and deeply corrupt.
People want more government control, but when governments take more control the press tells the people that it's bad and the people acquiesce.
In local forums, so often you see (paraphrasing a pattern) "why are the government interfering with landlords, they should stop so many barbers opening instead". That is, why are the gov interfering in property markets, instead they should interfere in property markets AND plan the economy (where economy here means 'financial system').
The people promoting planned economy without realising it are always 'right wing' 'all Communists should be shot'-types. It's fascinating.
I know a lot of left win Europeans who promote planned economy without realising it. So there's that.
I think a better way to look at it is people demanding the government to intervene whenever intervention is beneficial to them personally, while demanding the government leave things alone whenever intervention is detrimental to them personally. Which is just a long winded way to describe the basics of democracy - people voting in their own interest.
> people voting in their own interest.
There are some people who care about policy, care about a generally healthy environment. Which has a strong self-interest aspect, as it should, but not narrow.
Few people manage to vote for their own narrow interests in a reliable coherent way. Even the rich and powerful reliably foot gun themselves.
I believe the vast majority, the vast majority of the time, reliably and enthusiastically vote for their group's shibboleths. Regardless of what they might say or believe their own motivations are. Even seemingly sophisticated and principled thinkers. It shows via the reliable, trivial to resolve, but reflection impervious group-coded "misunderstandings" that even "serious" people defend and nurture. The group reinforced, often meme-reflex deflected, unthinkables. Across the political spectrum.
People vote for brands.
3 replies →
“The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else.” ― Frederic Bastiat
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/70896-the-state-is-that-gre...
Properly planning the economy, ala the Chinese tier system, is a good thing.
They have 3 tiers. Its called 新基建 - *Xīn Jījiàn
Top tier is for essentials like food, electricity, internet/comms, water, sewer. Heavily controlled, usually state owned companies.
Middle tier is stuff that's integrated into essential tier.
Lower tier is forefront of tech, and not at all critical for life.
And a reminder that even fucks like Nestle said that water is not a human right. But every capitalist would do their damndest to put a sale price on anything they could. They'd charge breathing if possible.
This is not that dissimilar to the US. The government either controls directly or is very heavily involved in all those things you listed in the top tier.
2 replies →
Every non capitalist would force you to work in random job they assign or force you to obey some rule or law they wrote for their own interest. you don't want to do the job? or dont want to follow the law and rules? fine! go to gulag and enjoy it there.
alternatively, non capitalist eras had real famines and lead to millions starving and dead. but sure putting a price for product/service after risking lots of capital is the real enemy, lmao. why biggest famines mostly happened in non capitalist places is real historical detail with lots of facts.
14 replies →