Which is a fundamental mistake to make with the U.S. government, even if we’re talking only about the executive branch, even if we’re only talking about DoD, even if we’re only talking about the IC.
The current position seems to be no-one has access, not even Anthropic employees. What powers does the US government have to force them to provide access? If they have that power why did they not use it to force them to provide their products for military use?
You misunderstand - the government issued a directive to Anthropic that effectively forced them to pull access from everyone, even their own employees.
The directive was to remove access to non-Americans, not to pull access from everyone. It’s because Anthropic cannot verify the identity of its users that it pulled access from everyone, not because the government explicitely requested that.
If their operation team is not US based that's going to be difficult to operate. They would have to reorganize the whole company as I'm pretty sure that they are not employing only US citizen.
Probably not. The US constitution limits what government can force on the people. If the NSA tries to force something that will spend years in court (if anyone wants to fight)
I hear you but, the Patriot act was the gateway. View it as a spectrum from then and how the Administration is now, and suddenly what the Donald is doing doesn't even seem bad: it seems on par for the dystopian road-map laid out long ago (I can't speak for before 9/11)
> The US constitution limits what government can force on the people.
The US constitution also prohibits:
- refusing to spend money that congress has appropriated
- dismantling congressionally-created federal agencies without congressional authorization
- directing federal agencies to selectively apply the law according to the preference of the executive
- giving control of federal agencies to individuals who have not been appointed by the legislative branch
- terminating, detaining, or deporting people without due process
- retaliation against private citizens or corporations for speech protected under the first amendment
- discriminating on protected grounds under the equal protections clause
... and yet the administration has done all these things with impunity while effete judges wring their hands and write sternly-worded letters. The US constitution demonstrably no longer has any force or effect.
Yeah... NSA literally has MITM proxies/interception of any traffic they want inside every major US tech company (based on my reading/following of Snowden leaks and others). Anthropic wouldn't be able to exist without implicit NSA approval. This article reads more like a marketing piece for Anthropic/Mythos... and ends by talking about how much NSA wants Anthropic models.
Propaganda indeed: my instinct says we are being lied to about how three letter agencies and military are paying for services. They give us a PR front that Uncle Sam is a regular paying customer just like you and me, but they're probably running the show: this is the largest data gathering operation since 9/11.
Sorry everyone: but the conspiracy is so obviously not, it's nauseating to admit, because you see all your friends, family and co workers dumping so much everyday data into these services.
It's generally accepted fact that the NSA broke HTTPS, for some of the time, for some of the services. It's unclear what they do have, but you'd be naive to assume consumer HTTPS is keeping them out.
It's too complicated. Do you know everything about CA, SSL, HTTPS, and so on? You make $250k a year working on it? Do you _really_, _really_, know everything? Then you're fired because you're lying to yourself, so you're probably unbearable to work with.
We were all freaking out about this with AT&T Thing nearly twenty years ago: and when nobody cared (Bush ran two terms! it helped to pretend AT&T was the only one affected), it gave "them" implicit permission to do it again with Google / Yahoo thing (it helped to pretend those were the only two cloud providers affected) ten years ago.
Now, we're all pretending that capitalism is real, and that the three letter agencies are just sittin' on the sidelines, while the world's largest data archiving opportunity is happening voluntarily (some are even PAYING for it!), at some wild-growth companies (with leaders who have too much to lose), who also have existed for just a few years? A 5 year old could probably blackmail Sam Altman, what about all the other middle management? The individual contributors (if they still exist) are of no concern: work is a commodity, it's easy to silo a worker's knowledge.
Surveillance opportunity is 10x social media from last decade, because they still have social media, and now, they've began thinking for people. How easy when it is an app on your smartphone. Those mind control experiments back in the 60's with Acid are looking silly by now. Besides, how do you know that the response you're getting wasn't manipulated (and define 'manipulated' across a spectrum of training to nefarious actors impersonating models, by power of court order.)
If you think all of that is unfounded ridiculous blasphemy, let me distract you with this instead: if the AI bubble bursts, the compute will be repurposed for mass AI / ML driven CCTV surveillance. Hell, maybe they'll find a way to give you a tax break if you sell your CCTV footage.
"NSA literally has MITM proxies/interception of any traffic they want inside every major US tech company" even if this statement is an exaggeration, by playing the long game, they get themselves setup to access what they want in the future.
I'm not for or against, but I do live in a safe place thanks to such surveillance (generally in the USA), and I want you to know that this AI Thing is only the latest chapter in the intelligence story.
>they're cops with too much access, it doesn't take a genius to outsmart a cop
the nsa has an unlimited budget and spend a good portion of that budget recruiting some of the smartest people in the country. while they dont have super powers, they also arent the town cop who took a 6 month course after high school then joined the force.
it does no good to hold them up as mythical figures. it also does no good to pretend they are bumbling idiots.
(every math phd i am acquainted with has been approached by nsa recruiters. none of them have been approached by police agencies.)
> They could just force them to provide Mythos to the federal government
The DPA only gives that power to the President [1].
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Production_Act_of_1950
Maybe GP was treating Trump to the royal "they"
Which is a fundamental mistake to make with the U.S. government, even if we’re talking only about the executive branch, even if we’re only talking about DoD, even if we’re only talking about the IC.
doubt Trump would accept that pronoun
The current position seems to be no-one has access, not even Anthropic employees. What powers does the US government have to force them to provide access? If they have that power why did they not use it to force them to provide their products for military use?
> What powers does the US government have to force them to provide access?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Production_Act_of_1950
This would not be a particularly big stretch here, either.
There is even a precedent for its use with regard to AI (only disclosing information, but still). Biden used it, why does Trump not do so?
You misunderstand - the government issued a directive to Anthropic that effectively forced them to pull access from everyone, even their own employees.
The directive was to remove access to non-Americans, not to pull access from everyone. It’s because Anthropic cannot verify the identity of its users that it pulled access from everyone, not because the government explicitely requested that.
Yes that's what "effectively" means.
If their operation team is not US based that's going to be difficult to operate. They would have to reorganize the whole company as I'm pretty sure that they are not employing only US citizen.
1 reply →
> directive was to remove access to non-Americans
Did Hegseth pull his supply-chain risk BS?
2 replies →
Probably not. The US constitution limits what government can force on the people. If the NSA tries to force something that will spend years in court (if anyone wants to fight)
The constitution limits a lot of things that this administration has done regardless.
I hear you but, the Patriot act was the gateway. View it as a spectrum from then and how the Administration is now, and suddenly what the Donald is doing doesn't even seem bad: it seems on par for the dystopian road-map laid out long ago (I can't speak for before 9/11)
> The US constitution limits what government can force on the people.
The US constitution also prohibits:
- refusing to spend money that congress has appropriated
- dismantling congressionally-created federal agencies without congressional authorization
- directing federal agencies to selectively apply the law according to the preference of the executive
- giving control of federal agencies to individuals who have not been appointed by the legislative branch
- terminating, detaining, or deporting people without due process
- retaliation against private citizens or corporations for speech protected under the first amendment
- discriminating on protected grounds under the equal protections clause
... and yet the administration has done all these things with impunity while effete judges wring their hands and write sternly-worded letters. The US constitution demonstrably no longer has any force or effect.
I'll die on the hill that this started at or before the Patriot act. Think about it. What's happening now just seems like a natural unfolding.
1 reply →
Yeah... NSA literally has MITM proxies/interception of any traffic they want inside every major US tech company (based on my reading/following of Snowden leaks and others). Anthropic wouldn't be able to exist without implicit NSA approval. This article reads more like a marketing piece for Anthropic/Mythos... and ends by talking about how much NSA wants Anthropic models.
Propaganda.
Propaganda indeed: my instinct says we are being lied to about how three letter agencies and military are paying for services. They give us a PR front that Uncle Sam is a regular paying customer just like you and me, but they're probably running the show: this is the largest data gathering operation since 9/11.
Sorry everyone: but the conspiracy is so obviously not, it's nauseating to admit, because you see all your friends, family and co workers dumping so much everyday data into these services.
> NSA literally has MITM proxies/interception of any traffic they want inside every major US tech company
No, they don't.
https://blog.encrypt.me/2013/11/05/ssl-added-and-removed-her...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A
Yeah, they did (and probably do).
8 replies →
It's back to the question of how much you should give the benefit of doubt to powerful people who openly lie.
6 replies →
It's generally accepted fact that the NSA broke HTTPS, for some of the time, for some of the services. It's unclear what they do have, but you'd be naive to assume consumer HTTPS is keeping them out.
It's too complicated. Do you know everything about CA, SSL, HTTPS, and so on? You make $250k a year working on it? Do you _really_, _really_, know everything? Then you're fired because you're lying to yourself, so you're probably unbearable to work with.
We were all freaking out about this with AT&T Thing nearly twenty years ago: and when nobody cared (Bush ran two terms! it helped to pretend AT&T was the only one affected), it gave "them" implicit permission to do it again with Google / Yahoo thing (it helped to pretend those were the only two cloud providers affected) ten years ago.
Now, we're all pretending that capitalism is real, and that the three letter agencies are just sittin' on the sidelines, while the world's largest data archiving opportunity is happening voluntarily (some are even PAYING for it!), at some wild-growth companies (with leaders who have too much to lose), who also have existed for just a few years? A 5 year old could probably blackmail Sam Altman, what about all the other middle management? The individual contributors (if they still exist) are of no concern: work is a commodity, it's easy to silo a worker's knowledge.
Surveillance opportunity is 10x social media from last decade, because they still have social media, and now, they've began thinking for people. How easy when it is an app on your smartphone. Those mind control experiments back in the 60's with Acid are looking silly by now. Besides, how do you know that the response you're getting wasn't manipulated (and define 'manipulated' across a spectrum of training to nefarious actors impersonating models, by power of court order.)
If you think all of that is unfounded ridiculous blasphemy, let me distract you with this instead: if the AI bubble bursts, the compute will be repurposed for mass AI / ML driven CCTV surveillance. Hell, maybe they'll find a way to give you a tax break if you sell your CCTV footage.
"NSA literally has MITM proxies/interception of any traffic they want inside every major US tech company" even if this statement is an exaggeration, by playing the long game, they get themselves setup to access what they want in the future.
I'm not for or against, but I do live in a safe place thanks to such surveillance (generally in the USA), and I want you to know that this AI Thing is only the latest chapter in the intelligence story.
[flagged]
8 replies →
Please provide sources for such bold claims
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM
https://www.wired.com/2013/10/nsa-hacked-yahoo-google-cables...
https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying
1 reply →
the NSA isn't a bunch of super soldiers, they're cops with too much access, it doesn't take a genius to outsmart a cop
>they're cops with too much access, it doesn't take a genius to outsmart a cop
the nsa has an unlimited budget and spend a good portion of that budget recruiting some of the smartest people in the country. while they dont have super powers, they also arent the town cop who took a 6 month course after high school then joined the force.
it does no good to hold them up as mythical figures. it also does no good to pretend they are bumbling idiots.
(every math phd i am acquainted with has been approached by nsa recruiters. none of them have been approached by police agencies.)
9 replies →
Please show me a photo of an NSA car with a light bar on it. They're not cops.
[flagged]
> Propaganda
IPO incoming.